2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[densoo]

ALL major airlines have been downsizing for years, while the regionals have grown.

UAL simply took it into hyper drive.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

How many guppies did UAL have in 2008? 2010? Something had to happen for the merger to take place and no it wasn't RJ's. It's outrageous that CAL would have bids Captain bids that go to 2006 hires. It's going to be fun in the cockpit for decades.

Uh, Whaaaaaat?? Lets see, what happened?

1. Ridiculous fuel prices in 2008
2. Worst worldwide economic meltdown since Great Depression
3. UAL ALPA unilaterally GAVE AWAY the 737 fleet by allowing it to be replaced with outsourced E-170s. The CRJ-700 did not have the performance to do so.

Are you saying that given the above conditions, absent this merger all your 737s would still be on the property? Better lay down the crackpipe.

Also, why is it outrageous that in 2013 2006 hires are holding 737 CA, when in 2007 2005 hires were holding CA and by summer 2008 were trained and flying the line 3 years after hire? These 2006 hires would have held CA 5 years ago if not for the age 65 debacle. Heck, maybe your 1998 hires could even be lineholding FOs on the 757/767 instead of reserves on the bus.

 

[densoo]

............

 

[ChrisJT6]

Unarrogantly? Your post screams UAL ego. I have never seen one group of pilots that have such a hard on for the size of their aircraft. No one, especially the 3 arbiters, gives two craps about how many planes you have with 2 aisles. You also have 1500 or so furloughed pilots but by God we got some 747's. Unbelievable. And as for signing a concessionary contract, again, sUAL pilots. We should not be surprised you have ANOTHER conspiracy theory concerning the sUAL pilots again. You guys simply refuse to look in the mirror and see the true cause of your problems. It's much easier to continue to blame someone else for what ails you. And when the SLI is done and it doesn't go your way, cause nothing ever does, it will be an even bigger conspiracy that we will get to listen to for the next 20 years. The only chip I have is the one you brought to this merger and glued to every sCAL pilots shoulders just so you would have something to look at and complain about.

The biggest problem here, and no sUAL pilot is ever gonna admit it, is that every damn one of you are pissed beyond belief that that you are having to merge with sCAL as an equal. It burns you up that you don't get to pick and choose what you want from sCAL in this merger and staple only the pilots you want to be involved in the new UAL. Denial is not just a river in Eqypt.......................

Clue #1: higher pay is tied to bigger planes. Your right, arbitrators won't look at that...genius.

Clue #2: the arbitrators will see which side has been using every opportunity to manipulate the SLI process. Name one area, event or JCBA item that sUAL demanded that had the sole purpose to manipulate the SLI?

I've flown with both pilot groups have you? Where does your vast knowledge of UAL pilots come from? I can tell you that I never flew with a sUAL pilot that was pissed at sCAL because he was turned down in an interview. Your pilot groups chip was firmly in place many years before our merger. I am getting happier by the day knowing your MEC is on its' way out!

Have you invented some super new synthetic drug that is undetectable?

 

[ChrisJT6]

............

The RJ flying went up a whopping 1.3% (max contractually allowed)....only difference is when the entire UAL 737 fleet was parked at the same time as the virtual merger with CAL those RJs started flying into IAH and EWR. Try again.

 

[densoo]

The RJ flying went up a whopping 1.3% (max contractually allowed)....only difference is when the entire UAL 737 fleet was parked at the same time as the virtual merger with CAL those RJs started flying into IAH and EWR. Try again.

Ok. Give me a minute.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Ok. Give me a minute.

No...too late just quit

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Why does no one seem to remember that CAL lost 63 737s during the same time frame? These alternate reality arguments are getting tiresome.

 

[densoo]

No...too late just quit

Ok, but just a breather.

 

[RT8VA]

Hey it is true that we wouldn't have bases where UAL does, but what we would have is a lot of hotel rooms because we would have the airplanes on layovers instead of having pilots based there. There is nothing rediculous about an 06 hire holding captain, instead of sitting around waiting to be recalled maybe you guys should have come here when we were hiring, you wouldn't have had to give up your LUAL seniority. For those that went and did other things and waited to be recalled that is how it works, you get recalled to whatever the company looks like when you get the recall notice and in this case it is the merged company. These 737's were ordered long before the merger and this bid looks just like the bids did before age 60.

 

[Flopgut]

Clue #2: the arbitrators will see which side has been using every opportunity to manipulate the SLI process. Name one area, event or JCBA item that sUAL demanded that had the sole purpose to manipulate the SLI?

We are just days into the formal SLI process and sUAL pilots are conspiring with the CEO trying to get a sCAL bid cancelled/changed?! That's blatant. We have done nothing more than prudent SLI work ought to include.

 

[BID]

Clue #1: higher pay is tied to bigger planes. Your right, arbitrators won't look at that...genius.

Is this why the L-UAL attempted to block L-CAL's request for pilot's W-2s??

 

[ATRCA]

Is this why the L-UAL attempted to block L-CAL's request for pilot's W-2s??

UALALPA knew that the W-2 data would show that more widebodies wasn't going to lead to better pay. They fought very hard to protect that data because it blew giant holes in their widebody argument. L-CAL large narrowbody paid more and a guy hired a decade later than the same UAL pilot was not only making more, he was progressing faster.

 

[nimtz]

The bases didn't happen because they would have been a TPA violation.

When you say worked for...do you mean VJMg yourself silly? This UPA is not the best contract sUAL pilots have ever had but sure is for sCAL crews!

Only partially correct. Remember this epic MEC update from JH:
"A CAL 737 base in SFO, while permitted in the TPA extension, would have had an emotional impact on the United Pilots."

Btw this contract still SUCKS. Although I really dig seeing a bowl full of sugar filled granola bars every time I go to work. Can't wait for 87 76 seaters to show up next year! Btw VJM has been sign, sealed, and delivered by Unical ALPA. Instead of fighting it as in the past, I'll be putting my name on the Senior Man list whenever I feel like it.

 

[eaglesview]

Is this why the L-UAL attempted to block L-CAL's request for pilot's W-2s??

That request was a joke. Any common Joe with internet access could find the payrates. It was nothing but a desperate attempt by CAL to try and gain an edge in the ISL because they know they need one. An embarrassing moment for the CAL foks.

 

[eaglesview]

We are just days into the formal SLI process and sUAL pilots are conspiring with the CEO trying to get a sCAL bid cancelled/changed?! That's blatant. We have done nothing more than prudent SLI work ought to include.

W-2 requests......787 bids years before an airplane even showed up.....this bid put out after the JCBA..........CAL side is desperate and they should be.

 

[list2002]

I didn't know the pilots controlled when bids came out. Or what positions would be included in them, you give us way too much credit.

 

[RT8VA]

You guys should read the book Sky Gods about the rise and fall of Pan Am, awful lot of similarities both in facts and statements. It's going to be an interesting finish to the end of summer.

 

[ChrisJT6]

We are just days into the formal SLI process and sUAL pilots are conspiring with the CEO trying to get a sCAL bid cancelled/changed?! That's blatant. We have done nothing more than prudent SLI work ought to include.

Holding CAL MEC to the TPA that they agreed to is conspiring with the CEO? Can't understand why you want want to taken another ALPA pilot groups flying in an illegal(against the TPA for LAX 756) or unfair manner...oh, I almost forgot who bred and mentored you, I remember now.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Only partially correct. Remember this epic MEC update from JH:
"A CAL 737 base in SFO, while permitted in the TPA extension, would have had an emotional impact on the United Pilots."

Btw this contract still SUCKS. Although I really dig seeing a bowl full of sugar filled granola bars every time I go to work. Can't wait for 87 76 seaters to show up next year! Btw VJM has been sign, sealed, and delivered by Unical ALPA. Instead of fighting it as in the past, I'll be putting my name on the Senior Man list whenever I feel like it.

I don't expect you to thank then UAL crews for the highest paying contract you've ever had but I guarantee the UAL crews are extremely happy about ending CAL MEC...good luck to you VJMg. BTW, it was in both of our previous contracts...we just didn't embrace it like you with crews on furlough! Why would you do that....oh, yeah I almost forgot who bred and mentored you.

That type of one way behavior gets the rest of us pretty fired up or emotional

 

[nimtz]

Holding CAL MEC to the TPA that they agreed to is conspiring with the CEO? Can't understand why you want want to taken another ALPA pilot groups flying in an illegal(against the TPA for LAX 756) or unfair manner...oh, I almost forgot who bread and mentored you, I remember now.

I prefer garlic followed by sourdough and if all else fails sourdough with my airline food. But you already knew that. Bread vs breed, there is a difference. At least you knew how to fill out the scantron.

 

[ChrisJT6]

I prefer garlic followed by sourdough and if all else fails sourdough with my airline food. But you already knew that. Bread vs breed, there is a difference. At least you knew how to fill out the scantron.

As a past participle it is bred not breed and had already corrected it before your post oh literary genius.

I'll take spelling over character as a weakness.

 

[BID]

That request was a joke. Any common Joe with internet access could find the payrates. It was nothing but a desperate attempt by CAL to try and gain an edge in the ISL because they know they need one. An embarrassing moment for the CAL foks.

The goal was W2s, pretty sure a Goggle search would not of worked.

So why did your union reps attempt to block this request? Especially if it was such a joke?

 

[taxicabdriver]

I don't expect you to thank then UAL crews for the highest paying contract you've ever had but I guarantee the UAL crews are extremely happy about ending CAL MEC...good luck to you VJMg. BTW, it was in both of our previous contracts...we just didn't embrace it like you with crews on furlough! Why would you do that....oh, yeah I almost forgot who bred and mentored you.

That type of one way behavior gets the rest of us pretty fired up or emotional

Can we also thank you for continuing to allow reserve days to be rolled, this new "airport reserve" wich only our fa's do, completly gutting our scope section, and the joke they call retro pay? Thank you nancies for this wonderful contract!!!

 

[ChrisJT6]

Can we also thank you for continuing to allow reserve days to be rolled, this new "airport reserve" wich only our fa's do, completly gutting our scope section, and the joke they call retro pay? Thank you nancies for this wonderful contract!!!

Dragging the contract negotiations out to facilitate more vacancy bids in a pipe dream of manipulating the SLI and then whining about retro...that is a joke! When all parties knew this to be true including the NMB, It is ridiculous that you think you would be able to get more retro following a self induced/serving delay. Again the contract sucks for all but none of it combined was worth trading the ending of your MEC! Sorry you don't get to continue your version of status quo. If you are into math, it is likely >45% of CAL pilots also voted for the UPA. Oh yeah, at least I never voted in a contract with blank pages and then beat my fake no vote chest for a decade! Ballsy move!

 

[ChrisJT6]

Can we also thank you for continuing to allow reserve days to be rolled, this new "airport reserve" wich only our fa's do, completly gutting our scope section, and the joke they call retro pay? Thank you nancies for this wonderful contract!!!

Also, your scope section became worthless the day the CO code ceased. Nonetheless, any legacy carrier attempting to compete in today's legacy market with a 50 seat scope limit is destined for demise. The UPA closed your Q400 loop hole as well. Your welcome.

 

[ChrisJT6]

The goal was W2s, pretty sure a Goggle search would not of worked.

So why did your union reps attempt to block this request? Especially if it was such a joke?

Are you saying we should share our private financial information with a group hell bent on doing us SLI harm?

Why doesn't your MEC just let the chips fall with arbitration? Why are they taking so many manipulating actions that frankly look desperate.

 

[densoo]

The RJ flying went up a whopping 1.3% (max contractually allowed)....only difference is when the entire UAL 737 fleet was parked at the same time as the virtual merger with CAL those RJs started flying into IAH and EWR. Try again.

"UAL MEC update: There have been some recent vacancy bids and with retirements and furlough recalls, more can be expected. We have had stagnation for the last 10 years..."

Stagnant since 2003, well before any 737s were parked. CAL was hiring in 2005.

 

[taxicabdriver]

Dragging the contract negotiations out to facilitate more vacancy bids in a pipe dream of manipulating the SLI and then whining about retro...that is a joke! When all parties knew this to be true including the NMB, It is ridiculous that you think you would be able to get more retro following a self induced/serving delay. Again the contract sucks for all but none of it combined was worth trading the ending of your MEC! Sorry you don't get to continue your version of status quo. If you are into math, it is likely >45% of CAL pilots also voted for the UPA. Oh yeah, at least I never voted in a contract with blank pages and then beat my fake no vote chest for

You think I liked waiting that long for a contract? And then get sold this lump of poo?? I just don't get how you think everything is some big conspiracy bent at the demise of the ual pilots, should we assume the same about y'all? Your 737s were parked at an attempt to alter the sli!! I knew it!!

 

[tie1on]

remember cal pilots are taking the captain seat from ual pilots for the last 10 -12 years.