2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[MECH]

Not to rain on your parade. But 737 CA is hardly the APEX of pilots career at L-CAL. We have 2005 hires that are holding 757/767 Captain in EWR.

What is a 1998 hire at L-UAL holding?

As far as WB. Yes you have a lot of WB. But they are old and have not been kept up. After the merger 100's of millions of dollars have been spent and will continue to be spent upgrading these aircraft. That includes GPS, FANS, winglets, HF datalink, Sat phones, FMC version upgrade from 5 to 9, engine thrust upgrade, RNAV RNP requirements, plus alot of other minor changes.

This is money that could have been used to fund our contract. But no we had to bring L-UAL into the twentieth century.

My point of all this is that. Neither group wanted this merger, but we are in it together. There is no point, pointing at one another saying well we had this! Or we bring this to the table! We are much better off shaking hands and trying to flight the real enemy.

NOTE: the enemy is not our fellow pilots.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Would only be appropriate for the thanks. If you've had us feed you for 3 years, isn't it obvious that your domestic fleet was completely inadequate before we came along? Don't believe it; why the influx of 737's all across your entire network? I know, the whole conspiracy thing to park your aircraft and order ours. Did your MEC ever find out who shot JFK, too?

Most of us looked forward to thanking your pilot group for the new contract we were looking to achieve with staunch unionists and all we got was more of the same sUAL has been living with for more than a decade.

Who carries more paxs across the Atlantic, sUAL or sCAL? Are we really going to start a johnson contest? Assumptions on WB orders are just.

I do enjoy reading your inflated ego of yourself. It makes me realize that sUAL pilots still reminisce about the late 90's way too much and really need to take a step back and realize your not all that.

I hope your new reps do better than the ones that voted for C12. I predict a gain of 2-5% for sCAL pilots but opinions are like elbows....we all have two.

I was unarrogantly responding to the poster stating that sUAL didn't bring anything to the table. I never said they same about sCAL.

I was in the military in the 90s so not sure what you're talking about other than you have a giant chip on your shoulder and are super worried about the SLI.

Right, sUAL should have allowed CAL MEC and UCH to keep dragging this on while we shrunk and CAL grew. The contract blows (best one CAL crews ever had) but at least it kills CAL MEC and stops the bleeding. Why do you think UCH management preferred to do more business with CAL MEC/Crews, why?

Oh yeah, sUAL also flies across the Atlantic from 5 hubs in WB fleets(not a ton of 757s that pay guppy rates)..you're level of intellect no doubt leaves you assuming everyone else is arrogant. Secure your Chip light and maybe the clues will come your way.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Not to rain on your parade. But 737 CA is hardly the APEX of pilots career at L-CAL. We have 2005 hires that are holding 757/767 Captain in EWR.

What is a 1998 hire at L-UAL holding?

As far as WB. Yes you have a lot of WB. But they are old and have not been kept up. After the merger 100's of millions of dollars have been spent and will continue to be spent upgrading these aircraft. That includes GPS, FANS, winglets, HF datalink, Sat phones, FMC version upgrade from 5 to 9, engine thrust upgrade, RNAV RNP requirements, plus alot of other minor changes.

This is money that could have been used to fund our contract. But no we had to bring L-UAL into the twentieth century.

My point of all this is that. Neither group wanted this merger, but we are in it together. There is no point, pointing at one another saying well we had this! Or we bring this to the table! We are much better off shaking hands and trying to flight the real enemy.

NOTE: the enemy is not our fellow pilots.

I agree...not trying initiate eye poking just respond to ridiculous assumptions. Also, if sUALs fleets were in such bad shape, I ask you to explain how sUAL was #1 in on time arrivals for the 2 years prior to the merger? Blaming pre-merger sUAL for UCHs mgmts screw ups post merger reminds me of Obama continuing to blame Bush years later for every no show/delivery failure over the last term.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Well they've done a real good job so far...

Seriously, I simply want to try and get some insight into what the next bid will look like. I'm not familiar with how the new system works. Everyone has seen how CAL has funtioned up to this point. I get all kinds of questions about IAH or Guam, or any/all kinds CAL related things. I'm not sure 737 CA is the "Apex" of a career, but it sure as hell is something half the sUAL pilots can't wait to get their hands on! Trust me, they aren't shy at about it. The only mystery at this point is what will be available to sCAL pilots out of this deal.

I finally took a glance at the sUAL staffing data, and initially I was encouraged. But that was pretty short lived. I don't think you guys got right sized for a merger. Not at all. I'm afraid sUAL only functions to shrink, park airplanes and furlough pilots. Can you deny that? Or offer a competeing opinion? If you can, let's hear it?

From my perspective, ending CAL MEC and dragging on the one way huge Bids in attempts to manipulate the SLI process..UAL MEC succeeded in that very important goal which I don't expect you to agree.

sUAL pilots are leaving and will continue to go back. I predict the 787 problems will keep a few sUAL 756s around longer and facilitate more recalls. Lets see what happens, but many of us have flown both the Bus and the Guppy and actually know the differences first hand.

If you are correct, this would be the first merger in history without redundancy cuts (ridiculously one sided in our case). I know they happened, you say not...fine.

 

[Flopgut]

If you are correct, this would be the first merger in history without redundancy cuts (ridiculously one sided in our case). I know they happened, you say not...fine.

I keep asking for a sUAL pilot to speak to what they think the the next bid will look like, and none of you answer. Truth is, we all know what it's going to look like. And the reason it will look that way is because sUAL is a ball and chain. Either admit it (I guess that's what you're saying in the above sentence), or spell out how I'm wrong. Right size for the merger? Stop flattering yourselves. All you do is shrink and furlough. Does not matter who you merged with, or if you didn't merge at all. Your old airplanes are going to continue to be parked as fast as your old pilots retire.

 

[chppr5]

I keep asking for a sUAL pilot to speak to what they think the the next bid will look like, and none of you answer. Truth is, we all know what it's going to look like. And the reason it will look that way is because sUAL is a ball and chain. Either admit it (I guess that's what you're saying in the above sentence), or spell out how I'm wrong. Right size for the merger? Stop flattering yourselves. All you do is shrink and furlough. Does not matter who you merged with, or if you didn't merge at all. Your old airplanes are going to continue to be parked as fast as your old pilots retire.

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW! You are a drama queen and love to stir the pot! We both brought pros and cons to the merger. Now we sit back and wait for the ISL. Why worry about "what if's"? Move on and stop the back and forth. You wonder why management treats us like children? All's they need is access to this board.

 

[MECH]

I agree...not trying initiate eye poking just respond to ridiculous assumptions. Also, if sUALs fleets were in such bad shape, I ask you to explain how sUAL was #1 in on time arrivals for the 2 years prior to the merger? Blaming pre-merger sUAL for UCHs mgmts screw ups post merger reminds me of Obama continuing to blame Bush years later for every no show/delivery failure over the last term.

If you look closely at pre merger s-UA stats you will notice a couple of telling facts. Your a/c utilization is pre merger was way lower then today. This made it much easier to substitute for broken a/c. Second your cancellation rate was a lot higher and cancellation do not count towards your on-time rate.

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[RT8VA]

Oh yeah, sUAL also flies across the Atlantic from 5 hubs in WB fleets(not a ton of 757s that pay guppy rates)

You do know that you were flying 767-300's for less than our Guppy rates right.

 

[eaglesview]

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW! You are a drama queen and love to stir the pot! We both brought pros and cons to the merger. Now we sit back and wait for the ISL. Why worry about "what if's"? Move on and stop the back and forth. You wonder why management treats us like children? All's they need is access to this board.

Amen to that. Bunch of folks thinking they have the crystal ball. Relax folks.

 

[Flopgut]

Really?? Maybe no one is answering because WE DON'T KNOW!

When the opportunities my side brings to the table is the subject, you've all got no shortage of speculation.

 

[eaglesview]

That's right chopper, show some respect!!! You know we all have always wanted to fly 737's form coast to coast!!!

Speculation about what Flops

 

[Flopgut]

As of this time the bid results are more than two days late. sUAL MEC is more than likely the culprit. This bid was suppose to open a 737 base in SFO and a 757 base in LAX. The new bases were cancelled after sUAL begged jeff not to allow it. Now it seems sUAL pilot leaders are possibly attacking the bid in another way. Not sure exactly how, but that is very much why it is late.

sCAL pilots are in the position we are in because over the last decade we made protecting jobs and job security a priority. sUAL pilots did the opposite, but now want to cash in on what we worked for.

*btw: This is almost exactly how this same group of pilots got the Frontier pilots kicked to the curb. They anointed themselves "brain surgeons" and sent almost 1000 FAL pilots to unemployment. Now they feel like they are hanging, when the gospel truth is: The deal you're getting is a hell of a lot better than what you would have given.

 

[densoo]

It is not late. By contract they have three business days to release the award. I have never seen a same-day turn around on this. The Sept bid closed on the 16, released on the 19th.

 

[sleeves]

It is not late. By contract they have three business days to release the award. I have never seen a same-day turn around on this. The Sept bid closed on the 16, released on the 19th.

Ahh, no the Sept. bid came out the same day the bid closed. I was watching it closely.

 

[densoo]

Ahh, no the Sept. bid came out the same day the bid closed. I was watching it closely.

It bid is not late. By contract they have three business days to release the award.

 

[IAHERJ]

Bid has been released. 2005 hires in all bases as captains and even 2006 hires in NYC 737 Captain position. Junior NYC 756 Captain went to July 2005 hire date.

On another note, 88 positions to bid on the s-UA side of the fence with more expected down the road. Movement for a long time which will be welcome news post SLI.

IAHERJ

 

[chppr5]

As of this time the bid results are more than two days late. sUAL MEC is more than likely the culprit. This bid was suppose to open a 737 base in SFO and a 757 base in LAX. The new bases were cancelled after sUAL begged jeff not to allow it. Now it seems sUAL pilot leaders are possibly attacking the bid in another way. Not sure exactly how, but that is very much why it is late.

sCAL pilots are in the position we are in because over the last decade we made protecting jobs and job security a priority. sUAL pilots did the opposite, but now want to cash in on what we worked for.

*btw: This is almost exactly how this same group of pilots got the Frontier pilots kicked to the curb. They anointed themselves "brain surgeons" and sent almost 1000 FAL pilots to unemployment. Now they feel like they are hanging, when the gospel truth is: The deal you're getting is a hell of a lot better than what you would have given.

Ya know what's ironic? You want to protect your bids in OUR bases. s-CAL would not have had an opportunity to bid a 737 or 757 base in ORD, SFO, DEN, LAX or IAD with out this merger. These were NOT your bases but you think you are entitled to hold these bids. You can have all the Cap bids you want in EWR and IAH. The draw down in flying from our bases are being replaced by the guppy and are being bid out of seniority. If these were your bases BEFORE the merger then you would have an argument.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Ya know what's ironic? You want to protect your bids in OUR bases. s-CAL would not have had an opportunity to bid a 737 or 757 base in ORD, SFO, DEN, LAX or IAD with out this merger. These were NOT your bases but you think you are entitled to hold these bids. You can have all the Cap bids you want in EWR and IAH. The draw down in flying from our bases are being replaced by the guppy and are being bid out of seniority. If these were your bases BEFORE the merger then you would have an argument.

Draw down in flying? Did you lose some airplanes or were they just reallocated like the l-CAL 737s were? The flying lost to l-CAL 737s in Houston was replaced by Airbus flying, bid deal. And please explain what "out of seniority" mean? Since the merger, I took a pretty good pay cut because of the loss of 767 flying in Houston, but I'm not on here crying about it like someone stole something for me. It is cutting both ways. After SLI, the company will have the flexibility to run the most cost effective operation possible. That isn't today. Noone is upgrading "out of seniority." When we have one list, we will continue to bid seats based on seniority, just like we always have.

 

[chppr5]

Draw down in flying? Did you lose some airplanes or were they just reallocated like the l-CAL 737s were? The flying lost to l-CAL 737s in Houston was replaced by Airbus flying, bid deal. And please explain what "out of seniority" mean? Since the merger, I took a pretty good pay cut because of the loss of 767 flying in Houston, but I'm not on here crying about it like someone stole something for me. It is cutting both ways. After SLI, the company will have the flexibility to run the most cost effective operation possible. That isn't today. Noone is upgrading "out of seniority." When we have one list, we will continue to bid seats based on seniority, just like we always have.

I agree with you. We have ALL taken a hit with fleet reallocation. I was responding to Flopgut's rant about UALMEC throwing a wrench in new equipment bid opportunities out of s-UAL bases. He seems to think s-UAL pilots want s-CAL Cap bids. That is far from the truth. We have a problem with new equipment bids out of our bases, as you are with yours. The reality though is we have twice as many domestic bases as you and s-CAL's a/c seem to be encroaching more on our bases than yours. As to out of seniority, there have been more opportunity for s-CAL Cap bids in our bases than 320/756 bids in your bases. So the draw down in flying in s-UAL bases creates more opportunity for s-CAL bids. Lets face it, our unfilled 320, 756 bids in JFK and IAH show that those bases aren't popular, but LAX, DEN, ORD, SFO, IAD are more popular for s-CAL than your bases are for us. In closing, when we have 12 yr guys on reserve in ORD, DEN and LAX because of the draw down of s-UAL flying and '05-'06 Cap bids in those bases because of the NEW equipment bids in s-UAL domiciles then that is OUT OF SENIORITY.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

I agree with you. We have ALL taken a hit with fleet reallocation. I was responding to Flopgut's rant about UALMEC throwing a wrench in new equipment bid opportunities out of s-UAL bases. He seems to think s-UAL pilots want s-CAL Cap bids. That is far from the truth. We have a problem with new equipment bids out of our bases, as you are with yours. The reality though is we have twice as many domestic bases as you and s-CAL's a/c seem to be encroaching more on our bases than yours. As to out of seniority, there have been more opportunity for s-CAL Cap bids in our bases than 320/756 bids in your bases. So the draw down in flying in s-UAL bases creates more opportunity for s-CAL bids. Lets face it, our unfilled 320, 756 bids in JFK and IAH show that those bases aren't popular, but LAX, DEN, ORD, SFO, IAD are more popular for s-CAL than your bases are for us. In closing, when we have 12 yr guys on reserve in ORD, DEN and LAX because of the draw down of s-UAL flying and '05-'06 Cap bids in those bases because of the NEW equipment bids in s-UAL domiciles then that is OUT OF SENIORITY.

So if a pilot is 98% in their respective system and is on reserve as an FO, and another pilot is 60% in their respective system and sitting reserve as a CA, that is out of seniority? Look, the SLI is on the horizon. There is not a finite number of vacancy bids, vacancies will be continuous across the composite system for the forseeable future. The list will be arbitrated, the new U will open LAX 756 and SFO 737 bases, and we'll all get to bid on them based on seniority. If you don't like l-CAL bases, don't bid them. There is no "out of seniority" as long as there are two lists.