2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[ChrisJT6]

As of this time the bid results are more than two days late. sUAL MEC is more than likely the culprit. This bid was suppose to open a 737 base in SFO and a 757 base in LAX. The new bases were cancelled after sUAL begged jeff not to allow it. Now it seems sUAL pilot leaders are possibly attacking the bid in another way. Not sure exactly how, but that is very much why it is late.

sCAL pilots are in the position we are in because over the last decade we made protecting jobs and job security a priority. sUAL pilots did the opposite, but now want to cash in on what we worked for.

*btw: This is almost exactly how this same group of pilots got the Frontier pilots kicked to the curb. They anointed themselves "brain surgeons" and sent almost 1000 FAL pilots to unemployment. Now they feel like they are hanging, when the gospel truth is: The deal you're getting is a hell of a lot better than what you would have given.

The bases didn't happen because they would have been a TPA violation.

When you say worked for...do you mean VJMg yourself silly? This UPA is not the best contract sUAL pilots have ever had but sure is for sCAL crews!

 

[chppr5]

So if a pilot is 98% in their respective system and is on reserve as an FO, and another pilot is 60% in their respective system and sitting reserve as a CA, that is out of seniority? Look, the SLI is on the horizon. There is not a finite number of vacancy bids, vacancies will be continuous across the composite system for the forseeable future. The list will be arbitrated, the new U will open LAX 756 and SFO 737 bases, and we'll all get to bid on them based on seniority. If you don't like l-CAL bases, don't bid them. There is no "out of seniority" as long as there are two lists.

It is if the new equipment bid is in the others domicile. Try putting the shoe on the other foot. sCAL would not have had an equipment base in ORD,DEN,LAX without this merger.
I agree on your other point, why not wait for an ISL to open the bid for the new Integrated UAL rather than opening up new equipment bids in our respective domiciles now.

 

[taxicabdriver]

The bases didn't happen because they would have been a TPA violation.

When you say worked for...do you mean VJMg yourself silly? This UPA is not the best contract sUAL pilots have ever had but sure is for sCAL crews!

Then why are so many cal pilots disappointed with the contract?? I have yet to talk to a ual guy who voted no and only a few cal guys who voted yes

 

[Ex737Driver]

I was unarrogantly responding to the poster stating that sUAL didn't bring anything to the table. I never said they same about sCAL.

I was in the military in the 90s so not sure what you're talking about other than you have a giant chip on your shoulder and are super worried about the SLI.

Right, sUAL should have allowed CAL MEC and UCH to keep dragging this on while we shrunk and CAL grew. The contract blows (best one CAL crews ever had) but at least it kills CAL MEC and stops the bleeding. Why do you think UCH management preferred to do more business with CAL MEC/Crews, why?

Oh yeah, sUAL also flies across the Atlantic from 5 hubs in WB fleets(not a ton of 757s that pay guppy rates)..you're level of intellect no doubt leaves you assuming everyone else is arrogant. Secure your Chip light and maybe the clues will come your way.

Unarrogantly? Your post screams UAL ego. I have never seen one group of pilots that have such a hard on for the size of their aircraft. No one, especially the 3 arbiters, gives two craps about how many planes you have with 2 aisles. You also have 1500 or so furloughed pilots but by God we got some 747's. Unbelievable. And as for signing a concessionary contract, again, sUAL pilots. We should not be surprised you have ANOTHER conspiracy theory concerning the sUAL pilots again. You guys simply refuse to look in the mirror and see the true cause of your problems. It's much easier to continue to blame someone else for what ails you. And when the SLI is done and it doesn't go your way, cause nothing ever does, it will be an even bigger conspiracy that we will get to listen to for the next 20 years. The only chip I have is the one you brought to this merger and glued to every sCAL pilots shoulders just so you would have something to look at and complain about.

The biggest problem here, and no sUAL pilot is ever gonna admit it, is that every damn one of you are pissed beyond belief that that you are having to merge with sCAL as an equal. It burns you up that you don't get to pick and choose what you want from sCAL in this merger and staple only the pilots you want to be involved in the new UAL. Denial is not just a river in Eqypt.......................

 

[Ex737Driver]

I agree with you. We have ALL taken a hit with fleet reallocation. I was responding to Flopgut's rant about UALMEC throwing a wrench in new equipment bid opportunities out of s-UAL bases. He seems to think s-UAL pilots want s-CAL Cap bids. That is far from the truth. We have a problem with new equipment bids out of our bases, as you are with yours. The reality though is we have twice as many domestic bases as you and s-CAL's a/c seem to be encroaching more on our bases than yours. As to out of seniority, there have been more opportunity for s-CAL Cap bids in our bases than 320/756 bids in your bases. So the draw down in flying in s-UAL bases creates more opportunity for s-CAL bids. Lets face it, our unfilled 320, 756 bids in JFK and IAH show that those bases aren't popular, but LAX, DEN, ORD, SFO, IAD are more popular for s-CAL than your bases are for us. In closing, when we have 12 yr guys on reserve in ORD, DEN and LAX because of the draw down of s-UAL flying and '05-'06 Cap bids in those bases because of the NEW equipment bids in s-UAL domiciles then that is OUT OF SENIORITY.

The only reason we have more opportunities for CA bids is our lack of 70 seat jets, pure and simple. You have 5 bases for domestic flying but a large percentage of that is 70 seat flying. If we had not moved 737's into any of your hubs, we would have continued to grow with the flying increasing in our existing hubs. These aircraft were order well before the merger. Your draw down is based upon some severely outdated and mx needy equipment. Most of your equipment is in dire need of upgrades that simply aren't cost effective. Our 75 spends 1 week in mx for "c" checks and yours spend close to a month. The cancellation rate for the shortbus and microbus is way beyond what you will ever see with any sCAL equipment.

Not sure how IAD, ORD, and DEN are popular bases insomuch as that's where the CA seats are. We have had a LAX and HNL base in the recent past and it was only logical to reopen our LAX base. Had nothing to initially do with sUAL flying.

I do understand you have 12 year guys on reserve but a choice is simply that, a choice. I could be a line holder in GUM but I choose to be on reserve as a CA in EWR. If you still truly believe the CA seats are being awarded are out of seniority order, perhaps your MEC should have done a better job of protecting the sUAL pilots jobs instead of always trying to find fault with the sCAL MEC. They are, after all, YOUR elected reps.

 

[eaglesview]

The biggest problem here, and no sUAL pilot is ever gonna admit it, is that every damn one of you are pissed beyond belief that that you are having to merge with sCAL as an equal. It burns you up that you don't get to pick and choose what you want from sCAL in this merger and staple only the pilots you want to be involved in the new UAL. Denial is not just a river in Eqypt.......................

We will see if the arbitrator thinks we are equals. Talk about ego. Go look at the fleets now or when the snapshot was taken.

 

[Flopgut]

The draw down in flying from our bases are being replaced by the guppy and are being bid out of seniority.

Wow. There's the brain surgeon arrogance. Fascinating you can concoct this theory but can't illustrate the reality of what sUAL brought to the merger?! It would be nice if instead of us arguing you could point to some obvious examples of potential opportunities sUAL brought to the merger.

SFO and LAX 757 bases did not happen on this CAL bid (for a variety of reasons) but you guys still went after the total number of vacancies the bid had!! Yes, you went after our bids in our own bases so spare us the crap about your bases entitling you to some form of seniority. Bottom line: You are in this position because you did not protect jobs and job secuirty. CAL ALPA did. I don't feel like you ought to earn any increase off our hard work. Your airplanes are no less prolific in our system than our 737s are in yours. The difference is the UAL airplanes in the sCAL system are big RJs that you don't fly. That's your own fault.

 

[Flopgut]

We will see if the arbitrator thinks we are equals. Talk about ego. Go look at the fleets now or when the snapshot was taken.

Dumbest thing I've ever seen you write. You might want to think about that one my friend.

Clearly you don't realize we are very much equals. Look no further than the point we are at right now. This didn't turn out like Frontier. Or even close to what you guys had envisioned perpetrating onto America West or USAir.

In many ways, we've already won. We have managed to drag, kicking and screaming, the elitest brain surgeons into thier worst nightmare: A fair deal.

 

[densoo]

We will see if the arbitrator thinks we are equals. Talk about ego. Go look at the fleets now or when the snapshot was taken.

Maybe they'll look at the pilot groups too when the snapshot was taken.

 

[densoo]

We will see if the arbitrator thinks we are equals. Talk about ego. Go look at the fleets now or when the snapshot was taken.

Well, since they're merging the PILOT groups and not the EXECUTIVE suites, the fact that UAL is under CAL's certification may be more than a small point to make. Wall Street merged a company, the arbitrators will be merging the pilots who work under the FAA's certification.


UNITED AIR LINES INC - CONTINENTAL AIRLINES INC

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FAA Designator Code CALA

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Years In Business 75

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Operator is doing business as
1. AIR MICRONESIA AIRLINES
2. CONTINENTAL AIRLINES
3. CONTINENTAL MICRONESIA AIRLINES
4. UNITED AIR LINES

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