168 "Large" Regional Aircraft left for RFP

[screamingpax]

Sorry sport, hate to break it to you but this is the direction regional contracts were and are going.

Oh yeah, remember that scumbag deal Skywest pulled with CAL to try to buy XJt a year earlier? The one that drastically lowered our profitability or risk buyout from SKYWEST? It's the same CPA they bought into now.

This company is so poorly run it's not even funny....Maybe running a non- union outfit that flies out West is their speed. Dealing with a group with a contract and flies with huge weather and operational hurdles (in the form of mainline imposed EDCTs and major delays) is clearly not.

Straight from the book of GenXJETesis:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He then created a population of highly superior beings called ExpressJet Pilots. Then in order to move these godly creatures around he created a golden chariot known as an E145.

 

[WAVIT Inbound]

Sorry sport, hate to break it to you but this is the direction regional contracts were and are going.

Oh yeah, remember that scumbag deal Skywest pulled with CAL to try to buy XJt a year earlier? The one that drastically lowered our profitability or risk buyout from SKYWEST? It's the same CPA they bought into now.

This company is so poorly run it's not even funny....Maybe running a non- union outfit that flies out West is their speed. Dealing with a group with a contract and flies with huge weather and operational hurdles (in the form of mainline imposed EDCTs and major delays) is clearly not.

Please tell me you are not that naive...champ.


Let me translate. XJT pilots are difficult, arrogant, impossible to deal with, and then when nothing gets accomplished they blame it on everyone else.

Pretty sure SKYW had plenty of experience dealing with EDCTs and delays. Give me a break. The only variable SKYW did not anticipate was the Deity complex of XJT pilots.

Should have just left you with the wonderful job your prior management was doing. I know most people here wish they would have.

 

[SAABaroowski]

Please tell me you are not that naive...champ.


Let me translate. XJT pilots are difficult, arrogant, impossible to deal with, and then when nothing gets accomplished they blame it on everyone else.

Pretty sure SKYW had plenty of experience dealing with EDCTs and delays. Give me a break. The only variable SKYW did not anticipate was the Deity complex of XJT pilots.

Should have just left you with the wonderful job your prior management was doing. I know most people here wish they would have.

It's funny you say this, everyone in my new hire class at Spirit said the same thing, lol. That XJT guys were always arrogant pricks . I think we were just proud of our contract and our operation etc......

And make no mistake, the EMB-145XR is a superior aircraft to any Bombardiar product

 

[WAVIT Inbound]

And make no mistake, the EMB-145XR is a superior aircraft to any Bombardiar product

Now this we do agree on!

SAAB I think my comment was a bit to harsh I know that. I actually have some friends at XJT and they are great guys, I just don't get why some of your guys seem so difficult to deal with? I have tried to have rationale conversations at times with guys I met and they were so irrational and hard to talk to. Maybe I got the bad bunch?

You on the other hand have always been a big help. Not sure if you remember some of our conversations 6+ years ago but thanks non the less for the help you gave.

 

[SAABaroowski]

Now this we do agree on!

SAAB I think my comment was a bit to harsh I know that. I actually have some friends at XJT and they are great guys, I just don't get why some of your guys seem so difficult to deal with? I have tried to have rationale conversations at times with guys I met and they were so irrational and hard to talk to. Maybe I got the bad bunch?

You on the other hand have always been a big help. Not sure if you remember some of our conversations 6+ years ago but thanks non the less for the help you gave.

I remember I didn't take your post the wrong way, XJT definitely has a bunch of arrogant guys/gals. I think it got worse the past couple of years. It got to the point where I would have guys with 1,400 hrs and 4 months on property calling me and complaining about everything and anything, "Why am I getting bypassed on RSV", "why am I getting used on RSV", why do I make so little etc. XJT has definitely changed, a lot of entitlement 23yr olds running around as of late

 

[777forever]

Sorry sport, hate to break it to you but this is the direction regional contracts were and are going.

Oh yeah, remember that scumbag deal Skywest pulled with CAL to try to buy XJt a year earlier? The one that drastically lowered our profitability or risk buyout from SKYWEST? It's the same CPA they bought into now.

This company is so poorly run it's not even funny....Maybe running a non- union outfit that flies out West is their speed. Dealing with a group with a contract and flies with huge weather and operational hurdles (in the form of mainline imposed EDCTs and major delays) is clearly not.

XJT has its issues, but the company is far from poorly run. Mesa and Trans States are poorly run companies, not XJT.

I assure you that you could not do any better, and in fact, much worse if you were put in charge tomorrow

 

[Baronman]

I assure you that you could not do any better, and in fact, much worse if you were put in charge tomorrow

Huh? That's like if I complained about broken airplanes and you said " Well you couldn't do any better fixing them." It's not my job, it's not what I'm trained to do. But in the context of working with these groups, I have a pretty clear idea when they're doing a good job.

 

[Ops check good]

Huh? That's like if I complained about broken airplanes and you said " Well you couldn't do any better fixing them." It's not my job, it's not what I'm trained to do. But in the context of working with these groups, I have a pretty clear idea when they're doing a good job.

Funny you should say that. At my airline I have actually had a few captains try to tell me what part needs to be changed. Nothing makes a captain sound like a tool more then telling a mechanic what is wrong with the plane and being completely incorrect. I just smile an walk away.

 

[Baronman]

Let me translate. XJT pilots are difficult, arrogant, impossible to deal with, and then when nothing gets accomplished they blame it on everyone else.
.

I think you have a future as a Scheduling supervisor.

Let me translate : Screw your contract, despite us not having enough pilots we need you to go against your contract and get aircraft moving.

 

[Nevets]

They get first dibs, and they get to name their own price, and United just has to bend over and take it? I find that highly unlikely.

Skywest only has the first right of refusal for the 75 replacement aircraft and the right to grown 15 aircraft within the life of the XJT CPA.

You were involved with the negotiations?? Cool

This is public information.

If its a new RFP, then no. Also, doesn't sound like a swap. Sounds like growth.

This is false. Skywest has the first right of refusal on the 75 large aircraft replacement, from the XJT CPA. It doesn't mean they will match any proposal submitted. There is also a right to grow 15 aircraft.

bingo!!

See my post above. Out of the supposed 168 aircraft, 90 of them can potentially go to XJT (75 replacement and 15 growth). But I do agree with you that overall, even with all 90 of these aircraft going to XJT, they will still shrink.

UAL can only add about 60ish large RJs to UAX until they establish a Small narrowbody/DAL 717 type fleet at mainline. After that they can add up to 325 total large RJs in exchange for a ton of 50 seaters.

- No 76-seat aircraft until Jan. 1, 2014
Legacy United 70-seat and turboprop limits until then

- After Jan 1, 2014
Cap 70-/76-seat aircraft at 255 hulls
No more than 130 76-seat aircraft
Q400 included in 76-seat aircraft count limits
UAL currently has 148 70-seat aircraft and 35 Q400s
Under United Pilot Agreement definitions, UAL currently has 183 of the 255 70/76-seat aircraft

- After Jan. 1, 2016
Cap 76-seat aircraft at 153
Can go above 153 76-seat aircraft if SNB aircraft added to UAL fleet which forces reduction of 70-seat aircraft to 102 cap
Must park 50-seat aircraft if going above 153 76-seat aircraft
Maximum UAX hard cap of 450 total hulls, from current 588

XJT has its issues, but the company is far from poorly run. Mesa and Trans States are poorly run companies, not XJT.

I assure you that you could not do any better, and in fact, much worse if you were put in charge tomorrow

If this isn't poorly run, I can't imagine this being close to normal ops for you guys! Talking from an operational standpoint (not that they've made any money either), this company is the most poorly run in the last 7 years. It's only gotten worse since December 2010.

 

[WAVIT Inbound]

Anyways back on topic.

This rumor appears to have some teeth.

I am hearing 35 175's will be announced this week for INC. with 22 going to SKYW and 13 going to XJT.

 

[COOPERVANE]

777, Nevets knows what it is like to work for a well organized, well run company.......you don't, and this ain't one of them.

 

[Popeye0537]

Anyways back on topic.

This rumor appears to have some teeth.

I am hearing 35 175's will be announced this week for INC. with 22 going to SKYW and 13 going to XJT.

Ha ha, and where might these 175 aircraft be coming from? Republic has the next 45 coming out of the factory with the option of 45 more.

 

[dojetdriver]

More "large" RJs at the regionals = less mainline jobs to look forward to.

Yep, as agreed to by mainline pilots.

For sure, SkyWest Airlines has no "relationship with embraer"... Where did they get those EMB-120's they still operate again?

The majority from WestAir, wasn't it?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yep, as agreed to by mainline pilots.



The majority from WestAir, wasn't it?

Uh....



NO! Care to try again?

 

[777forever]

Ha ha, and where might these 175 aircraft be coming from? Republic has the next 45 coming out of the factory with the option of 45 more.

The 3 per month that Republic is getting thru 2015 is NOT filling up all of Embraer's delivery slots

 

[AntiJedi]

The majority from WestAir, wasn't it?

Only about 5 or so came from WestAir. Another 10-15 or so came from inactive fleets (ASA, Comair, Mesa, etc.) The majority of these were RT models, of which, the last of those were pulled offline in 2004.

Of the remaining 42 active ships in the fleet, only 4 were not delivered new to the company; they were bought from Mesa prior to the start of the UA contract.

 

[theo]

XJT has its issues, but the company is far from poorly run. Mesa and Trans States are poorly run companies, not XJT.

I assure you that you could not do any better, and in fact, much worse if you were put in charge tomorrow

777 if you ever checked the operating stats for United you would see that quite often Trans States and Mesa are the best operators for completion and on-time performance. I don't think your statement is consistent with the facts. Oh, by the way, Express jet is usually at the bottom of those same rankings.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I use Mesa to commute to work occasionally. Overall a much more reliable op than XJT, and the crew are usually quite professional. Who woulda thunk.

 

[N4niner206]

I use Mesa to commute to work occasionally. Overall a much more reliable op than XJT, and the crew are usually quite professional. Who woulda thunk.

Just a point regarding the quality of the operations... mesa is consistently top performer at both their USX and UAX contracts. Mesa as of late has also been at the top of UAX "promoter scores" from passenger feedback given to united. It has not always been this way... and likely will not always be this way, but it IS a relevant point in this conversation. And just to answer the question that we all know is coming, YES they have ACARS time reporting installed on all of their codeshare aircraft (have for a long time now) If i recall, the performance figures actually improved quite a bit compared to the pre-acars numbers. Not saying it doesn't have its problems, but currently the quality of the operation doesn't seem to be one of them.

 

[Plainsman]

I call bullsnit!

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Just a point regarding the quality of the operations... mesa is consistently top performer at both their USX and UAX contracts. Mesa as of late has also been at the top of UAX "promoter scores" from passenger feedback given to united. It has not always been this way... and likely will not always be this way, but it IS a relevant point in this conversation. And just to answer the question that we all know is coming, YES they have ACARS time reporting installed on all of their codeshare aircraft (have for a long time now) If i recall, the performance figures actually improved quite a bit compared to the pre-acars numbers. Not saying it doesn't have its problems, but currently the quality of the operation doesn't seem to be one of them.

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[WSurf]

Actually on the US Airways Side Mesa is the probably the best performer out off all the Express Carriers. I've seen the numbers during Recurrent Training. While Air Wiscosin and Piedmont are among the worst. Then again Piedmont is flying around in almost 30 year old TurboProps.

 

[XPOO]

OO/United Express (1,103 daily departures) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 59.86%, A14 - 74.68%, CF - 99.15%

YV/United Express (100+ daily departures?) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 60.90%, A14 - 77.07%, CF - 98.61%

OO/US Airways Express (93 Daily Departures) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 87.90%, A14 - 92.30%, CF - 99.40%

Ok, now let's see Mesa's stats for US Airways Express.

 

[XPOO]

Actually on the US Airways Side Mesa is the probably the best performer out off all the Express Carriers. I've seen the numbers during Recurrent Training. While Air Wiscosin and Piedmont are among the worst. Then again Piedmont is flying around in almost 30 year old TurboProps.

I can tell you this much. So far, for 2013, Mesa has THE worst completion factor in the industry at 97.1%. Its not hard to run the flights you don't cancel on-time when you cancel more flights than anyone else.

 

[N4niner206]

Where are you getting your information from?

There are numerous sources - I'll list one here, that covers many aspects such as on-time performance (of course this is just one of many measurements of "quality of operation". The info is out there - don't take my word for it, look for yourself.

Airline Quality Rating data for 2012 is as follows (2013's report will come out on April 8... we can compare the most recent data at that point).

Note that these figures from the 2012 report cover the 2011 year (the 2013 report out soon will show 2012).

http://www.airlinequalityrating.com/reports/2012aqr.pdf

For example, some on-time performance for the year (summarized) for those who don't want to check it themselves:

Mesa: 0.837
Skywest: 0.793
American Eagle: 0.763
ASA: 0.752

My intent isn't to try to put any carrier down - its purely to dispute the statement that Mesa is operating poorly.

 

[N4niner206]

OO/United Express (1,103 daily departures) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 59.86%, A14 - 74.68%, CF - 99.15%

YV/United Express (100+ daily departures?) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 60.90%, A14 - 77.07%, CF - 98.61%

OO/US Airways Express (93 Daily Departures) March Month-to-Date:

D0 - 87.90%, A14 - 92.30%, CF - 99.40%

Ok, now let's see Mesa's stats for US Airways Express.

XPOO shouldn't you have access to the YV data for the USAirways and United contracts? I have contacts in YV's DX that get the data from all of the competing carriers. While I've seen it myself many times, I don't have direct access to it to post here. You should be able to, however?

 

[N4niner206]

Sources, sources, sources....

For those craving more current information...

Additional source: www.flightstats.com

MESA (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 81%
Late 6%
Very Late 2%
Excessive 6%
Canceled 2%
Diverted 0%

SKYWEST (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 78%
Late 7%
Very Late 3%
Excessive 8%
Canceled 2%
Diverted 0%

EXPRESSJET (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 69%
Late 8%
Very Late 4%
Excessive 13%
Canceled 4%
Diverted 0%

REPUBLIC (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 69%
Late 10%
Very Late 4%
Excessive 11%
Canceled 3%
Diverted 0%

PIEDMONT (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 69%
Late 8%
Very Late 4%
Excessive 10%
Canceled 5%
Diverted 0%

PSA (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 78%
Late 8%
Very Late 3%
Excessive 7%
Canceled 2%
Diverted 0%

AIR WISCONSIN (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 68%
Late 8%
Very Late 5%
Excessive 12%
Canceled 5%
Diverted 0%

PINNACLE (YTD March 15 2013 20 Most Active Routes)

On-time 76%
Late 7%
Very Late 3%
Excessive 8%
Canceled 3%
Diverted 0%

Feel free to search it yourself... or bring us links to data that shows otherwise.

 

[N4niner206]

I can tell you this much. So far, for 2013, Mesa has THE worst completion factor in the industry at 97.1%. Its not hard to run the flights you don't cancel on-time when you cancel more flights than anyone else.

Not doubting you, but please cite your source so that I can better understand this industry. Can you show your sources? I have been unable to find anything to support this statement (see posts above).

 

[N4niner206]

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/2013MarchATCR.pdf

Sorry if it doesn't copy over well from the PDF. Take a look at the file for yourself, its much easier to read and I'm not about to go through and re-format it all.

Summary: DOT figures for 2012. Mesa was ahead of Skywest in 3 out of 4 quarters (in 3rd quarter, Skywest on-time performance ahead of Mesa's by 2/10ths of a percent).

AIRTRAN 90.0 2 89.1 3 82.9 6 86.2 3 91.3 2 81.4 6 89.5 3 87.2 3 (--) (--)
ALASKA 84.5 7 90.1 2 89.2 2 85.8 4 87.3 6 83.3 3 86.7 5 88.1 2 76.5 5
AMERICAN 83.1 8 80.5 12 70.0 15 74.1 15 79.6 15 75.2 9 79.4 10 76.6 15 78.0 3
AMERICAN EAGLE 82.8 9 83.0 10 80.0 11 80.6 9 86.6 7 73.9 11 75.4 14 81.1 10 (--) (--)
DELTA 87.3 3 87.5 4 84.4 3 87.2 2 90.6 3 85.4 2 87.5 4 86.6 4 77.6 4
EXPRESSJET 77.4 14 79.1 14 73.9 13 77.4 12 84.0 11 71.2 13 71.6 15 76.3 16 (--) (--)
FRONTIER 77.1 15 79.4 13 80.7 10 74.3 14 82.1 13 62.7 15 71.3 16 77.5 13 (--) (--)
HAWAIIAN 92.3 1 94.4 1 92.8 1 94.1 1 94.1 1 93.3 1 92.5 2 93.3 1 (--) (--)
JETBLUE 81.8 11 82.4 11 77.2 12 75.3 13 81.9 14 70.2 14 78.3 11 78.9 11 (--) (--)
MESA 86.3 6 87.1 6 81.5 8 84.8 5 88.4 4 81.9 5 80.4 9 84.8 6 (--) (--)
PINNACLE (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) (--) 77.9 12 77.9 12 (--) (--)
SKYWEST 81.7 12 84.2 8 81.7 7 78.8 11 82.8 12 72.9 12 77.6 13 81.3 9 (--) (--)
SOUTHWEST 87.2 4 83.7 9 81.0 9 80.8 8 86.0 8 73.9 10 84.9 6 82.9 8 81.9 1
UNITED 80.9 13 76.4 15 72.4 14 80.1 10 85.5 10 78.4 8 82.8 8 77.4 14 76.2 6
US AIRWAYS 87.2 5 87.4 5 84.2 4 84.7 6 88.1 5 82.9 4 83.0 7 85.7 5 78.3 2
VIRGIN AMERICA 82.6 10 85.2 7 83.3 5 82.6 7 85.9 9 80.5 7 93.1 1 84.3 7 (--) (--)