10/250

[Semore Butts]

Oh yeah Julius! I think the Cards may win it again!

I'll have another Word Champion T-shirt in my drawer.

Just spent 2 weeks vacation with my dad in STL. Watched the cards every game. Also ran into John L. of the "Carlyle "L's") in the airport on the way home!

I picked up 4 Cardinal "coozies" as well!!!!!

Semore, (Parkway North)

 

[OHGOON]

Then go! We'll all be better off.

Was just answering your question...why the jingoistic rage? Bet you have nothing but empty slogans to back up what you've been told to think.

 

[NJAowner]

Does 10/250 really work?

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

C'mon now. You're smart enough to know the numbers are WAY more complicated than that.

Gulfstream or Global monthly management fees per 1/4 share are north of $60,000 and all the other aircraft fees are somewhere in between. It just ISN'T as simple as saying x times y equals z.

I've always loathed the phrase "our fair share." We don't get a "share" of the profits. We EARN whatever salaries and benefits we negotiate with our employer and leave the running of the business and the earning of a profit to THEM. And the simple fact is, the demographics and the supply and demand profile of the pilot profession are shifting in the pilot's favor.

Is it enough of a shift to demand and get $250,000 at year 10 PIC? Considering a Delta 10 year PIC (if there were such a thing) would make about $215,000 I think the answer is "doubtful." But have we EARNED a substantial raise and an improvement in retirement funding? Oh hell yes. And is the money there to pay for those improvements and STILL make a profit? Absolutely. And that's BEFORE the next CPI-U adjustment of every owner's management fee that happens EVERY year. My salary has been frozen for three years.

 

[Xcorporate]

nearly 500 have been "sharing the losses" for quite some time now. 10/250 does work and if there are short falls the owners can pay more to cover them.

 

[NJAowner]

if there are short falls the owners can pay more to cover them

or leave the NJA program, which just makes the problems worse.

 

[Xcorporate]

They don't seem to be having that problem right now. If you can't afford NJ anymore perhaps it is time call Delta. Or maybe use your influence to force Jordan to run a leaner management team. Pilots are a very very small part of the expense within the overall picture. And I'd argue they have the most direct influence over your experience/safety. Pay them what they are worth.

 

[fischman]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

Yes. We have. The company can afford 10/$250 NOW without any impact to most of the owners, except Mr. Buffett. He is just going to have to get his money a little slower.

Keep in mind the company is making money on operations only at this time. A lot of money. To add on top of that, they are selling airplanes now. A lot of planes.

There is no reason an owner needs to even know their pilots are finally being paid a good wage, except that the service and mood of the crews is going to be more superb.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

NJAOwner,

A good point but its 10 year Captain, $250k; not every pilot. Seems this isn't really that far off from typical pay for this position. Reference NBAA salary surveys.

 

[NJAowner]

All I want to know is not to subject my family to this. Last time "negotiations" were ongoing on 2 separate flights we had a FOs explain to my wife and kids for 10-15 minutes (when they were not in the cockpit) how little they get paid and what they do on their days off. Hopefully everyone will be a little more professional this time around.

Just remember this is not 2006 and the NJ of 2013 (and the industry) is not the NJ of 2006.

 

[gret]

You may have broken a few hearts and egos with you and your family?s lack of concern regarding crew member compensation levels and what they do on their days off.

The senior guys know better, the idiots don?t get it...the less time talking to owners/passengers the better...can't make a mistake when you're listening, only when you are talking.

 

[Fresh Air]

if there are short falls the owners can pay more to cover them

or leave the NJA program, which just makes the problems worse.

If Nutjets gets too pricey, we'd love to have you over here at the "value" fractional. Don't be concerned about the geriatric equipment or the clinically depressed crew, we'll probably get you to your destination more or less on time.

 

[NJAowner]

Fresh Air -- funny you say that -- the last 2 planes I was on at NJA were manufactured in 1998 (and 1 arrived 7 hours late), and the last 2 at the "value" place were on time 2013 aircraft.

Gret -- I do not mean to break any hearts. We do have concern for the pilots and actually did speak to management in the past. But to spend 10-15 minutes during the flight speaking to a 7 year old girl and my wife (and not me) instead of being in the cockpit is in my opinion very unprofessional. Look at my posts in the past and I have advocated raises along with what I thought was a very effective and professional way to reach owners. The fact is most owners have no idea what the pilots are paid, but there are better ways to educate them. Educating owners and letting them send direction to the company is a better tactic than "the company has a whole big pile of money and I deserve some".

 

[Fresh Air]

Fresh Air -- funny you say that -- the last 2 planes I was on at NJA were manufactured in 1998 (and 1 arrived 7 hours late), and the last 2 at the "value" place were on time 2013 aircraft.

Gret -- I do not mean to break any hearts. We do have concern for the pilots and actually did speak to management in the past. But to spend 10-15 minutes during the flight speaking to a 7 year old girl and my wife (and not me) instead of being in the cockpit is in my opinion very unprofessional. Look at my posts in the past and I have advocated raises along with what I thought was a very effective and professional way to reach owners. The fact is most owners have no idea what the pilots are paid, but there are better ways to educate them. Educating owners and letting them send direction to the company is a better tactic than "the company has a whole big pile of money and I deserve some".

Touche'. We do have some Phenom's that aren't old. And I really am glad that we were on time for you and your family.

 

[msculley6905]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

this person understands business....