10/250

[msculley6905]

A majority of them are surprisingly satisfied....which is good on face value,

All owners I know a very satisfied with the pilots. I think many of them will not complain to the pilots about problems and issues the owners are having with operations. My guess is all newcomers to private aviation are ecstatic (as we all once were). However, longer owners of NJ shares see the service as inferior to what it once was. It is all about expectations -- when these are incredibly great and responsive (a 100 on a scale), getting a mere 96 while still great is a step down. The real test of owners' sentiment is where their private aviation dollars are going -- and the "net flow" of these dollars is not into NJ. I have also pointed out before how various departments at NJ can "play" with their numbers to make their department look better and management then uses the same numbers to show how wonderful things are -- but so far from reality.

The old NJ culture was do whatever it takes to get an owner where they expect to be on time or as close to it. That is no longer the culture. I have had quite a number of flights (some in the past year, and this has happened to others I know) where operations decides it is better to give the owner the contractual credit for a late flight (capped at 2 hours in the last few years of contracts -- but it did not used to be capped) than actually bring in a recovery aircraft (which may be larger) or use sell off. While that may save NJ $$, it does not make for happy owners. This is especially true as sales uses the "depth" of the NJ and EJM fleets for recovery purposes as one of the major reasons to use NJ and not a competitor.

As a scheduler (for tomorrow's activity) i can honestly say that I've never heard of us FORCING an owner to take a delay. The process for recovery always (and i emphasize always since i have to fix the plan when it changes) is the fastest option for departure ( may be upgrade/downgrade), followed by equivalent aircraft type with a possible longer delay. And those options are always relayed through owner service and the owner makes the final decision (as it should be). I can't speak how/if cretits are issued, but just know that we never make day-of recovery decisions based on operating costs. That's our job in next-day, to turn over the most optimized/efficient schedule possible.

And to the pilot group: feel free to PM me on why we do the things we do. I'd be happy to explain why it doesn't always make immediate sense.

 

[727C47]

Fischman, We ,you,are worth 10/250 ,fight the fight,I'm one of the 495 too,dont let the depressives bring you down, go for it, you,we,are worth it. I love my current job,in fact I may never return to NJA,but I think what you are doing is brilliant. If the "realists" were listened to,Everest would never have been climbed, the Moon never obtained,and the Mets would never have won in '69, GO FOR IT !!!

 

[NJAowner]

I've never heard of us FORCING an owner to take a delay

You are correct -- I have never been "forced" -- threatened with bodily harm or threats to my family. Yes -- I have voluntarily and of my own free will accepted NJ's offer to fly me many many hours past my requested departure time (my only other option was not to fly NJ). So yes, you are correct.

On the other point, the head of my OS team and someone very, very, very high ranking at NJ told me that economics now does play into the equation in an attempt help keep the owners' costs down -- how nice of them. A GIV is not coming from the east coast to handle a 1 hour Excel recovery flight on the west coast. Do you also believe that due to the incredible systems in place every catering order is delivered to the plane with 100% accuracy?

 

[FLYLOW22]

It certainly is good to see the Trolls out once again... and under different monikers these days.

Just like old times.

 

[fischman]

Fischman, We ,you,are worth 10/250 ,fight the fight,I'm one of the 495 too,dont let the depressives bring you down, go for it, you,we,are worth it. I love my current job,in fact I may never return to NJA,but I think what you are doing is brilliant. If the "realists" were listened to,Everest would never have been climbed, the Moon never obtained,and the Mets would never have won in '69, GO FOR IT !!!

Of course it is. I'm brilliantly awesome.

Thanks for the support. We will get there. 5 naysayers on an anonymous Internet message board sometimes seem like the world is against you, but it isn't. It's just 5 people who don't realize what they are worth. You know what you call someone who doesn't know their worth? WORTHLESS.

 

[fischman]

It certainly is good to see the Trolls out once again... and under different monikers these days.

Just like old times.

With bacon.

 

[msculley6905]

I've never heard of us FORCING an owner to take a delay

You are correct -- I have never been "forced" -- threatened with bodily harm or threats to my family. Yes -- I have voluntarily and of my own free will accepted NJ's offer to fly me many many hours past my requested departure time (my only other option was not to fly NJ). So yes, you are correct.

On the other point, the head of my OS team and someone very, very, very high ranking at NJ told me that economics now does play into the equation in an attempt help keep the owners' costs down -- how nice of them. A GIV is not coming from the east coast to handle a 1 hour Excel recovery flight on the west coast. Do you also believe that due to the incredible systems in place every catering order is delivered to the plane with 100% accuracy?

Agree with you that i've never seen a G ferry 5 hours coast to coast for a recovery a 1 hour excel flight, but that's rarely needed. However, i have seen a G ferry 3 hours, then a X ferry 2 hours, then multiple XLs add ferry time as well due to one recovery. Economics does play into the equation, but it's only to find the best solution for other flights affected AFTER the fix for the recovery is established. Far from the primary motivator.

Re: catering...no, I'm not that naieve. But until we get our own catering at all locations, we rely on vendors. Mistakes happen, but i've never seen us substitute crawfish for lobster just because it looks the same and is cheaper.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I have also pointed out before how various departments at NJ can "play" with their numbers to make their department look better and management then uses the same numbers to show how wonderful things are -- but so far from reality.

This is the problem with NJA's new metrics-driven culture. As long as the numbers look good, it doesn't matter what the reality is.

The old NJ culture was do whatever it takes to get an owner where they expect to be on time or as close to it. That is no longer the culture. I have had quite a number of flights (some in the past year, and this has happened to others I know) where operations decides it is better to give the owner the contractual credit for a late flight (capped at 2 hours in the last few years of contracts -- but it did not used to be capped) than actually bring in a recovery aircraft (which may be larger) or use sell off. While that may save NJ $$, it does not make for happy owners. This is especially true as sales uses the "depth" of the NJ and EJM fleets for recovery purposes as one of the major reasons to use NJ and not a competitor.

This will not change until Boy Wonder is gone. The owners (read: you) need to let Warren Buffett know what is happening and your perceptions of the business. He only knows what he sees and is being told. I'll guarantee you WB's flights are NEVER delayed, and his service has suffered not one iota. To him, everything is running perfectly here.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Like I said, pointless......, when the negotiators deem a acceptable agreement is reached they will present it for vote.. There will be the guys who vote NO just on principle, and the will be those who are too scared to vote NO... Then there will be those who actually become informed and knowledgable about what is in the TA, and make an informed decision.. ( the realists)

The last group is actually the smallest. You forgot the largest group of voters - those that only read section 27, and vote accordingly.

 

[dashtrasher]

Is Gutshot a negotiator? If he is then present it, if not then what's the point of presenting the idea here.