10/250

[imacdog]

What about yearly COLAs in the next contract?

 

[BentOver]

No, it's not. $250,000 is about $208,000 in 2005 currency.Inflation is a bitch, which is all the more reason we need large gains to make any meaningful improvement to our wages.

You as we'll as I know that in 2005 the pay was considerably lower making it easier to walk if need be......today I would guess that far fewer Captains will be of the same mindset as back then...

I agree that large pay raises are in order, just afraid that far more Captains are "comfortable" enough not to want to take a fight all the way this time around? How many will settle for $200K because it still is a $40-50K increase... And what a lot are afraid of is how much of the rest of the CBA will be modified to get anywhere close to $250K?

 

[gutshotdraw]

What about yearly COLAs in the next contract?

No matter WHAT the new pay scale is, COLA is an ABSOLUTE MUST as far as I'm concerned.

No COLA=Automatic NO vote.

 

[jtf]

COLA has to be in it and it should be there until a new contract is signed, in which case it must be there also. However, I don't believe we will get the current 3.5% longevity raises and COLA year over year. None of the airlines get that big a longevity boost on top of the COLA and I just don't see yearly raises being that high. We need to get the pay scales quite a bit higher at the average years of service for the group and then adjust the new scales from there. In my preference, the PIC scales would all end at year 14 and the SIC scales would end at year 10, but then they would blend into the PIC scales at the year that the pay is one step higher. After year 14 as a PIC, you are then on COLA raises just like all the major airlines do. This way brings a bigger bump for the masses and a smaller one for the senior pilots, but it should still be a huge boost for them and it would include COLA which they don't have already.

 

[jonjuan]

COLA has to be in it and it should be there until a new contract is signed, in which case it must be there also. However, I don't believe we will get the current 3.5% longevity raises and COLA year over year. None of the airlines get that big a longevity boost on top of the COLA and I just don't see yearly raises being that high. We need to get the pay scales quite a bit higher at the average years of service for the group and then adjust the new scales from there. In my preference, the PIC scales would all end at year 14 and the SIC scales would end at year 10, but then they would blend into the PIC scales at the year that the pay is one step higher. After year 14 as a PIC, you are then on COLA raises just like all the major airlines do. This way brings a bigger bump for the masses and a smaller one for the senior pilots, but it should still be a huge boost for them and it would include COLA which they don't have already.

I don't think airlines get cola raises after top longevity.

 

[gutshotdraw]

After 15 pages worth of responses, I've reached a few conclusions on this concept.

http://t.nbcnews.com/travel/just-doesnt-fly-some-airline-pilots-barely-make-living-wage-8C11022539

I direct your attention to the major airline pay chart about two-thirds into the article. It would seem that the highest-paid 10 year PIC at a major is around $215,000 and the average $165,000.

To me, that seems to indicate that Option A of my original post is the more likely outcome.

Although I think we all agree that fractional flying is a unique part of the industry, major airline pay seems to be the benchmark everybody points to. If so, I think we have to acknowledge that $250,000 BASE pay at year 10 is a TAD unrealistic.

I think somewhere in the $180,000 range for a 10 year, 7-7 PIC is a good target provided there is a SUBSTANTIAL increase in 401K contributions, hopefully approaching the $51,000 annual limit. Direct 401K contributions are a FAR cheaper way for the company to increase total compensation because it doesn't incur the employer's burden of additional taxes.

COLA increases for the out years after the longevity scale reaches the cap (say 15 years) would also HAVE to be part of the proposal for me to even consider settling for the lower base pay number.

By all means, I think 10/250 is a catchy phrase and a good place for the negotiating committee to start but the Tooth Fairy in Omaha just ISN'T going to leave that kind of coin under our pillow no matter how much "leverage" we create.

Shields are up. Bring on the photon torpedoes.

 

[fischman]

After 15 pages worth of responses, I've reached a few conclusions on this concept.

http://t.nbcnews.com/travel/just-doesnt-fly-some-airline-pilots-barely-make-living-wage-8C11022539

I direct your attention to the major airline pay chart about two-thirds into the article. It would seem that the highest-paid 10 year PIC at a major is around $215,000 and the average $165,000.

To me, that seems to indicate that Option A of my original post is the more likely outcome.

Although I think we all agree that fractional flying is a unique part of the industry, major airline pay seems to be the benchmark everybody points to. If so, I think we have to acknowledge that $250,000 BASE pay at year 10 is a TAD unrealistic.

I think somewhere in the $180,000 range for a 10 year, 7-7 PIC is a good target provided there is a SUBSTANTIAL increase in 401K contributions, hopefully approaching the $51,000 annual limit. Direct 401K contributions are a FAR cheaper way for the company to increase total compensation because it doesn't incur the employer's burden of additional taxes.

COLA increases for the out years after the longevity scale reaches the cap (say 15 years) would also HAVE to be part of the proposal for me to even consider settling for the lower base pay number.

By all means, I think 10/250 is a catchy phrase and a good place for the negotiating committee to start but the Tooth Fairy in Omaha just ISN'T going to leave that kind of coin under our pillow no matter how much "leverage" we create.

Shields are up. Bring on the photon torpedoes.

Conceding already? The negotiations haven't even started yet! THIS is the thought process which WILL cause us to fail.

Disappointing...

 

[imacdog]

Fisch, the rational amongst us haven't taken you seriously in some time. Maybe it's time for you to let the grown ups talk now.

 

[fischman]

Fisch, the rational amongst us haven't taken you seriously in some time. Maybe it's time for you to let the grown ups talk now.

By insinuating I am a child, you are by definition name calling.

Name calling is the last resort of a weak mind.

When one uses name calling, he has no more valid arguments left.

Logic is awesome.

In short, you lose.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Conceding already? The negotiations haven't even started yet! THIS is the thought process which WILL cause us to fail.

Disappointing...

Realism is not a concession.

MC's numbers would seem to confirm my point of view. I question the wisdom of defining victory as 10/250. To me, 10/180, max 401K, and COLA would hardly be a failure.


And yes, the photon torpedo reference was for you amigo...

Thanks for only setting the phaser on "stun."