10/250

[NJAowner]

if there are short falls the owners can pay more to cover them

or leave the NJA program, which just makes the problems worse.

 

[Xcorporate]

They don't seem to be having that problem right now. If you can't afford NJ anymore perhaps it is time call Delta. Or maybe use your influence to force Jordan to run a leaner management team. Pilots are a very very small part of the expense within the overall picture. And I'd argue they have the most direct influence over your experience/safety. Pay them what they are worth.

 

[fischman]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

Yes. We have. The company can afford 10/$250 NOW without any impact to most of the owners, except Mr. Buffett. He is just going to have to get his money a little slower.

Keep in mind the company is making money on operations only at this time. A lot of money. To add on top of that, they are selling airplanes now. A lot of planes.

There is no reason an owner needs to even know their pilots are finally being paid a good wage, except that the service and mood of the crews is going to be more superb.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

NJAOwner,

A good point but its 10 year Captain, $250k; not every pilot. Seems this isn't really that far off from typical pay for this position. Reference NBAA salary surveys.

 

[NJAowner]

All I want to know is not to subject my family to this. Last time "negotiations" were ongoing on 2 separate flights we had a FOs explain to my wife and kids for 10-15 minutes (when they were not in the cockpit) how little they get paid and what they do on their days off. Hopefully everyone will be a little more professional this time around.

Just remember this is not 2006 and the NJ of 2013 (and the industry) is not the NJ of 2006.

 

[gret]

You may have broken a few hearts and egos with you and your family?s lack of concern regarding crew member compensation levels and what they do on their days off.

The senior guys know better, the idiots don?t get it...the less time talking to owners/passengers the better...can't make a mistake when you're listening, only when you are talking.

 

[Fresh Air]

if there are short falls the owners can pay more to cover them

or leave the NJA program, which just makes the problems worse.

If Nutjets gets too pricey, we'd love to have you over here at the "value" fractional. Don't be concerned about the geriatric equipment or the clinically depressed crew, we'll probably get you to your destination more or less on time.

 

[NJAowner]

Fresh Air -- funny you say that -- the last 2 planes I was on at NJA were manufactured in 1998 (and 1 arrived 7 hours late), and the last 2 at the "value" place were on time 2013 aircraft.

Gret -- I do not mean to break any hearts. We do have concern for the pilots and actually did speak to management in the past. But to spend 10-15 minutes during the flight speaking to a 7 year old girl and my wife (and not me) instead of being in the cockpit is in my opinion very unprofessional. Look at my posts in the past and I have advocated raises along with what I thought was a very effective and professional way to reach owners. The fact is most owners have no idea what the pilots are paid, but there are better ways to educate them. Educating owners and letting them send direction to the company is a better tactic than "the company has a whole big pile of money and I deserve some".

 

[Fresh Air]

Fresh Air -- funny you say that -- the last 2 planes I was on at NJA were manufactured in 1998 (and 1 arrived 7 hours late), and the last 2 at the "value" place were on time 2013 aircraft.

Gret -- I do not mean to break any hearts. We do have concern for the pilots and actually did speak to management in the past. But to spend 10-15 minutes during the flight speaking to a 7 year old girl and my wife (and not me) instead of being in the cockpit is in my opinion very unprofessional. Look at my posts in the past and I have advocated raises along with what I thought was a very effective and professional way to reach owners. The fact is most owners have no idea what the pilots are paid, but there are better ways to educate them. Educating owners and letting them send direction to the company is a better tactic than "the company has a whole big pile of money and I deserve some".

Touche'. We do have some Phenom's that aren't old. And I really am glad that we were on time for you and your family.

 

[msculley6905]

Does 10/250 really work? I don?t want to destroy anyone?s dream?s, but has anyone run the numbers? Pilots? salaries are supposed to come out of the Monthly Management Fees (MMF), which also includes costs of maintenance, hangaring, reserves for refurbishing and repainting, operations, owner services, etc. I think the proper line item to look at in making your assumptions is the total MMF (not to be confused with other income or profits NJA may make from accounting treatment and other items ? and these items fluctuate from years to year ? if you want a share of the profits will you shares the losses??). The MMF for a 1/16th in an Excel is approximately $9500. That equates to a total annual MMF of $1,824,000 per Excel ($9500 x 16 x 12). I believe I have read on this board that staffing is 5 pilots per jet ? if so salaries alone before any benefits would be $1,250,000. Using a ?rule of thumb? of a 50% charge for employer taxes and benefits would bring just the pilot?s costs to $1,875,000 per jet or more than the total MMF. I wish you good luck but the numbers don?t seem to work.

this person understands business....

 

[msculley6905]

Yes. We have. The company can afford 10/$250 NOW without any impact to most of the owners, except Mr. Buffett. He is just going to have to get his money a little slower.

Keep in mind the company is making money on operations only at this time. A lot of money. To add on top of that, they are selling airplanes now. A lot of planes.

There is no reason an owner needs to even know their pilots are finally being paid a good wage, except that the service and mood of the crews is going to be more superb.

....this person does not

 

[msculley6905]

Don't get me wrong, I believe that the pilot group (and every employee for that matter, myself included) deserves a bump in pay now that the company is consistently profitable...it's the easiest way to keep workers happy which ultimately keeps customers happy and remaining as customers...money talks when speaking with professionals, not ice cream socials at BWY, jeans day or feel good emails...profit sharing was a major plus in my book.

But at the same time, I understand why my salary CANNOT and WILL NOT be doubled just by remaining in my same position for 10 years. And there are many, many, many less of us than pilots....and we earn much, much less even at current rates.

 

[fischman]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That person is on management's payroll and knows only what he is told.

 

[fischman]

Don't get me wrong, I believe that the pilot group (and every employee for that matter, myself included) deserves a bump in pay now that the company is consistently profitable...it's the easiest way to keep workers happy which ultimately keeps customers happy and remaining as customers...money talks when speaking with professionals, not ice cream socials at BWY, jeans day or feel good emails...profit sharing was a major plus in my book.

But at the same time, I understand why my salary CANNOT and WILL NOT be doubled just by remaining in my same position for 10 years. And there are many, many, many less of us than pilots....and we earn much, much less even at current rates.

Are you foolish enough to actually believe in profit sharing? And you say I don't understand business??? HA!!!

Time to grow up.

 

[fischman]

Yes. We have. The company can afford 10/$250 NOW without any impact to most of the owners, except Mr. Buffett. He is just going to have to get his money a little slower.

Keep in mind the company is making money on operations only at this time. A lot of money. To add on top of that, they are selling airplanes now. A lot of planes.

There is no reason an owner needs to even know their pilots are finally being paid a good wage, except that the service and mood of the crews is going to be more superb.

....this person does not

Please... Oh PLEASE tell me how I'm wrong. I can't WAIT to hear this...

 

[msculley6905]

@fisch

My payroll check says Netjets, same as yours...and look me up on NJ email based on my username...it's not that hard to find out who I am

I didn't say you were wrong, I said you don't know how it works...since you're on the topic of growing up, let me dumb it down so an immature child like yourself could understand....if Dad said curfew was at 9, and you consistently got home at 10, what happened? Got in trouble. If WB wants $X ROI, and we only deliver X-Y consistently, what happens? Right now we're always getting home at 8...and 10/250 is like getting home at 9:10 and sneaking in the window, trying not to get caught...might be ok for a while, but will be trouble later on

Just as you would like to try and have me prove you wrong, I'd like to see the union's projection on the bottom-line impact of 10/250 over the next, say, 8 years, as more and more PICs get tenure. I don't claim to know specifics, but I know reality. Seems you claim know specifics, but not reality

 

[fischman]

@fisch

My payroll check says Netjets, same as yours...and look me up on NJ email based on my username...it's not that hard to find out who I am

I didn't say you were wrong, I said you don't know how it works...since you're on the topic of growing up, let me dumb it down so an immature child like yourself could understand....if Dad said curfew was at 9, and you consistently got home at 10, what happened? Got in trouble. If WB wants $X ROI, and we only deliver X-Y consistently, what happens? Right now we're always getting home at 8...and 10/250 is like getting home at 9:10 and sneaking in the window, trying not to get caught...might be ok for a while, but will be trouble later on

Just as you would like to try and have me prove you wrong, I'd like to see the union's projection on the bottom-line impact of 10/250 over the next, say, 8 years, as more and more PICs get tenure. I don't claim to know specifics, but I know reality. Seems you claim know specifics, but not reality

I don't think you are familiar with reality at all. Especially if you actually are a scheduler. Make your lines look pretty on the computer screen instead of letting the crews get ready for the next day. Let us worry about our CBA and the owners. We're good at it.

 

[Semore Butts]

Hey Owner, good to see you posting.

Owner, That COLA the company has charged you all those years didn't go to us, that's for sure.

To Mscully, profit sharing? If we took the ridiculous concessions that "hogwarts" offered you could kiss your profit sharing goodbye. That's just a ploy to get you to do exactly what you are doing, making us the villain. (We were here way before the EMT, when they are done raping and pillaging the company you and I work at, they will be gone)

Respectfully, Semore

 

[msculley6905]

I don't think you are familiar with reality at all. Especially if you actually are a scheduler. Make your lines look pretty on the computer screen instead of letting the crews get ready for the next day. Let us worry about our CBA and the owners. We're good at it.

Care to elaborate on my skewed view on reality? What do we do that keeps you from getting the job done? (PM me if you want some real answers to your questions) As far as I know it's all legal based on your last mutually agreed upon contract with the company. Perhaps you'd like a 10 hr max duty day for 10/250 as well?

 

[fischman]

Care to elaborate on my skewed view on reality? What do we do that keeps you from getting the job done? (PM me if you want some real answers to your questions) As far as I know it's all legal based on your last mutually agreed upon contract with the company. Perhaps you'd like a 10 hr max duty day for 10/250 as well?

Actually, yes. I feel 12 hours should be a max with OT over 10 hours. Anything more is not safe in my opinion.

And no, during section 6 negotiations I will not elaborate at all in public or private what you do to the schedule that is stupid. Every pilot at the company knows exactly what I'm talking about though.