New SWA record at 380+ trips a month?

[redflyer65]

PLC here is your math:

100% of the AT pilot group is making more than when they were bought.

Every FO that crossed over to the Southwest side got a 40% to 50% pay raise the second they crossed on top of the pay raises that they got after the purchase. That is over half of your seniority list that got massive pay raises.

Every Captain that came over may or may not be making close to what they were making the last year but they are still making more than what they were before the acquisition.

The fact that 70% of the captains that came over can now hold captain here giving them an additional 35% pay raise over what they were making as a captain at AT.

With almost 90 percent of your workgroup making anywhere from 35% to 50% more here as SW than they were making at AT it is kind of hard to listen to you whine about "MATH" as the only thing that the SW pilots got was a lot more people who were a lot younger coming in above them and not a single stock option or pay raise to ease the pain.

Anyways the only math you need now is what the max tongue weight is for a double wide.

When the top pay rate at AirTran was 152/hr for a CA, and 79/hr for an FO you understand the point Blueside is making. It's not hard to go up 30-50% (hell 80-90% for the junior) when you're starting that low.

Hey, that Double Wide won't sell itself Blue.

 

[SWA Bubba]

And 100% of the Southwest pilot group is making more than they were making in 2000. Just as worthless a statistic as yours.



I'm sorry that you have such an entitlement mindset that you believed you were entitled to anything more than a fair integration. Where did you get such a poor and misplaced attitude? Poor parenting, perhaps?

I suspect that thought comes from idea that in an SLI, "neither side should receive a windfall when the other side doesn't." I'm pretty sure that even ALPA's playbook on mergers included words to that effect. And if the merger had gone the way you thought (strictly relative seniority, with all AirTran Captains receiving a SWA captain seat), then that "no windfall" idea would have been completely obliterated. One side would have received a huge windfall (massive pay increases, better job security, better and stronger contract), while the other side would have received exactly nothing (other than generally-younger guys on the list ahead of them).

You keep forgetting about that whole "windfall for one side" part. I wonder why.

Bubba

 

[ASADFW7]

Trailer park airline? Ah the joys of the cheap seats, must be a slow day leasing condos.

 

[PCL_128]

I suspect that thought comes from idea that in an SLI, "neither side should receive a windfall when the other side doesn't." I'm pretty sure that even ALPA's playbook on mergers included words to that effect. And if the merger had gone the way you thought (strictly relative seniority, with all AirTran Captains receiving a SWA captain seat), then that "no windfall" idea would have been completely obliterated. One side would have received a huge windfall (massive pay increases, better job security, better and stronger contract), while the other side would have received exactly nothing (other than generally-younger guys on the list ahead of them).



You keep forgetting about that whole "windfall for one side" part. I wonder why.



Bubba

Sorry, but that's not what the windfall standard says. It's actually not ALPA Merger Policy, but a standard set by an arbitration decades ago.

Here is what it actually says: "Neither party shall receive a windfall at the expense of the other.

AirTran pilots receiving a pay raise is not at your expense. Your pay would have remained the same, as would your relative seniority.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Sorry, but that's not what the windfall standard says. It's actually not ALPA Merger Policy, but a standard set by an arbitration decades ago.

Here is what it actually says: "Neither party shall receive a windfall at the expense of the other.

AirTran pilots receiving a pay raise is not at your expense. Your pay would have remained the same, as would your relative seniority.

Well, I'm glad to see that you recognize that it would be a huge windfall to the AirTran side, while the SWA side got apparently nothing. And I would argue that it IS at the expense of the Southwest side, in that you're getting much higher pay rates and contract strengths that was negotiated with the Southwest side's negotiating capital. Your own negotiating strength earned you you none of that. And the Southwest side would be harmed if it went relative like you wanted. The SWA side as a whole would have many, many pilots younger than them placed ahead of them on the seniority list, resulting in much lower career expectations. They'd never reach the seniority that they would have absent the acquisition. Moreover, they're harmed over the entire rest of their career, seniority-wise, while the AirTran side received a windfall.

That's why "fair" has to take into account much more then th one-size-fits-all mentality, that you're only advocating because it benefits you.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

I'm advocating what arbitrators have determined is fair. I'm sorry that it doesn't comport with your warped views that are always Southwest centric.

 

[ASADFW7]

PCL you can do that without calling swa a trailer park airline. If you can't move on.

 

[PCL_128]

No thanks. I don't care for the airline's product. No need for you to take that personally. You just work there.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

No thanks. I don't care for the airline's product. No need for you to take that personally. You just work there.

But you hurt his feelings cause he one of the clowns slinging peanuts to the cattle while deadheading...

 

[ron burgundy]

PHX CA got 367 last month. Nothing like a 69k month.

I'm looking at 210+ for this month. It's really not that hard if you don't mind working a little more during the summer months. It's a nice bonus.

(reference highlighted)

Yes there is..A LIFE! Also,not basing your self-worth on your net-worth!

 

[ron burgundy]

It is always the same.."why don't we cheat on our spouses". Or, I made this much $$
last month/year. You see LUV. I see shallow, frail, little men.

 

[Ty Webb]

PLC here is your math:

100% of the AT pilot group is making more than when they were bought.

Every FO that crossed over to the Southwest side got a 40% to 50% pay raise the second they crossed on top of the pay raises that they got after the purchase. That is over half of your seniority list that got massive pay raises.

Every Captain that came over may or may not be making close to what they were making the last year but they are still making more than what they were before the acquisition.

The fact that 70% of the captains that came over can now hold captain here giving them an additional 35% pay raise over what they were making as a captain at AT.

With almost 90 percent of your workgroup making anywhere from 35% to 50% more here as SW than they were making at AT it is kind of hard to listen to you whine about "MATH" as the only thing that the SW pilots got was a lot more people who were a lot younger coming in above them and not a single stock option or pay raise to ease the pain.

Anyways the only math you need now is what the max tongue weight is for a double wide.

Yawn.

I really don't like rehashing this stuff, but if you insist on revising history, expect someone to come along and set the record straight.

Even under our 2001 contract, I was making 154./hr, which is more than I'm making now, even without 14 years of inflation.

And, although you have conveniently forgotten it, the AirTran pilots voted down the $180./hr pay rates in a failed TA 7 years ago, the rates we were revisited upon us after the announcement; that's where they came from, they weren't just plucked out of the air.

Facts are stubborn things.....But they are what they are.

If you want to keep playing this game, the lack of unity it encourages wil likely bite you in the axx.

Lead the charge up the hill, but don't be surprised if you look back and see there are only a few loudmouths behind you. Most people, OSW and FAT have already grown up and moved on.

 

[madjack]

Such a big boy...your mom would be proud...your "story"...as always... Is skewed...

 

[Ty Webb]

If you think I posted something that wasn't true, and you actually have something factual to say, let's hear it.

 

[madjack]

You got a raise AFTER/and only because SWA bought your company....try comparing CA to CA rates at acquisition...you probably weren't even qualified to interview at SWA when I got hired...pompous blow hard prick...

 

[bluesideup1]

Yawn.

I really don't like rehashing this stuff, but if you insist on revising history, expect someone to come along and set the record straight.

Even under our 2001 contract, I was making 154./hr, which is more than I'm making now, even without 14 years of inflation.

And, although you have conveniently forgotten it, the AirTran pilots voted down the $180./hr pay rates in a failed TA 7 years ago, the rates we were revisited upon us after the announcement; that's where they came from, they weren't just plucked out of the air.

Facts are stubborn things.....But they are what they are.

If you want to keep playing this game, the lack of unity it encourages wil likely bite you in the axx.

Lead the charge up the hill, but don't be surprised if you look back and see there are only a few loudmouths behind you. Most people, OSW and FAT have already grown up and moved on.

You seem to not understand what a fact is and base everything on what your personal situation is.

Because please show me exactly where I revised history.

Was it when I said that the F.O. got an immediate raise coming to SW? No that is very factual.

Was it when I said that you are making more now than before the purchase? No, once again pretty easy to compare pay rates.

Was it when I said that the vast majority of the Airtran pilots are making more once they transitioned or upgraded at SW? No, once again easily verifiable.

So the only thing that you are saying is that I revised history because I didn't include a pay rate in a contract that was never implemented? Should I also include the loss of pay from the pay rates that were never implemented when you voted down TA 1?

The simple fact is that the VAST MAJORITY OF AIRTRAN PILOTS ARE MAKING WAY MORE AT SOUTHWEST THAN THEY WERE AT airtran.

 

[Ty Webb]

You got a raise AFTER/and only because SWA bought your company....try comparing CA to CA rates at acquisition...you probably weren't even qualified to interview at SWA when I got hired...pompous blow hard prick...

Who pissed in your cheerios. Wacky-Jack?

I was a 737CA in 2004. When were you hired?

 

[Ty Webb]

You seem to not understand what a fact is and base everything on what your personal situation is.

Because please show me exactly where I revised history.

You said:

"100% of the AT pilot group is making more than when they were bought."

Proven False.


You said:

"Was it when I said that you are making more now than before the purchase? No, once again pretty easy to compare pay rates.".

Again, False.

I was making $154. under our 2001 Contract. That is more than I am making here, even without inflation cutting it in half.

Give it a rest, Chief. You're starting to sound as crazy as Wacky-Jack.

:laugh:

 

[madjack]

Grateful? Try looking in the mirror...and then pat yourself on the back...feel better? But the truth is you never would have gotten in the door on your own steam...and you know it...

 

[madjack]

HeyTy, find a small, but growing airline, get hired and then get acquired by DL and your dreams will finally come true...everyone will be happier...