New SWA record at 380+ trips a month?

[SWA Bubba]

I remember when airline pilots considered a credit cap to be a necessity in a major airline contract. Sad how things have changed. Enjoy your sh!tty schedules.

I'm sure you do, Mr. ALPA. But why would an actual working pilot want a maximum they can work? I mean, other than someone who's concerned with maximum numbers of pilots to maximize dues income to a union, that is.

This way, if you want more pay for whatever reason, you can pick up extra. If you don't want it, you don't have to. And we have guys on both extreme ends. We have guys who only work their line, or less; and we have guys who bust their ass to pad their pay checks. It's their choice. Sounds like a win-win to me.

It would really suck if you needed the money one month for some family thing or something, and then your ALPA rep tells you, "sorry bud, you've worked all we'll allow you to this month--we have to justify these other pilots' existence; you know, so we can maximize the dues gravy train."

No thanks, PCL--you can keep that line of thinking to yourself. Well, yourself and your like-minded buds in Herndon.

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

150 hours in a month, hell I barely get 300 hours a year. Glad I'm flying corporate and to think, an airline career flying a 747 international was my one time dream.



Couldn't care less now. No unions, no disgruntled pilots, tons of time off, great pay.



Hopefully the job stays around for another 13 years until I can check out permanently and for the last time.

Nobody's flying 150 hours per month.

 

[Ty Webb]

150 hours in a month, hell I barely get 300 hours a year. Glad I'm flying corporate and to think, an airline career flying a 747 international was my one time dream.

Couldn't care less now. No unions, no disgruntled pilots, tons of time off, great pay.

Hopefully the job stays around for another 13 years until I can check out permanently and for the last time.

Corporate flying was fun... I enjoyed it, but I sure wouldn't want to go back to it. I don't want to get into a pissing match about it, but here you are in the Majors forum.... I don't see too many airline guys hanging out in the Corporate threads.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I think the company has absolutely zero motivation to give us a contract.

Absolutely. Without leverage you have d!ck.

SWAPA has d!ck

 

[SWA Bubba]

Absolutely. Without leverage you have d!ck.

SWAPA has d!ck

What?! You don't like SWAPA, and you take every opportunity you can to impotently vent your hate upon it? C'mon, say it isn't so. Nobody would ever have guessed.

Bubba

 

[JT12345]

There is no need for a credit cap when a company has never furloughed. Knock on wood. When your company furloughs on a regular basis cynically I can see a cap as a concern.

I guess choice does not matter. Only socialism.

 

[JT12345]

You guys were too hard on the General.

 

[slaquer5]

Absolutely. Without leverage you have d!ck.

SWAPA has d!ck

not from what I have seen.
c

 

[JT12345]

Man. So many guys with over 150 trip hours. Wow. Just wow. I figure the restricted must be even higher. I did hit 160 one month, but it must have been a fluke for me. I got lucky. Guess I am stuck with straight pay to a lot of others benefits.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I remember when airline pilots considered a credit cap to be a necessity in a major airline contract. Sad how things have changed. Enjoy your sh!tty schedules.

No kidding! Even a cap with a negative bank that allows me to drop a trip or swap down from a 4 day to a 3 day for the same pay the following month would beat this whole "fly hard every month until you die" philosophy.

 

[PCL_128]

No kidding! Even a cap with a negative bank that allows me to drop a trip or swap down from a 4 day to a 3 day for the same pay the following month would beat this whole "fly hard every month until you die" philosophy.

Hear that, Bubba? Not everyone at the flying trailer park thinks everything there is perfect.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I'm not going to disparage the place. It's good, but the quality of life provisions at another airline I worked for in a past life were considerably better. Yes, we had caps but that allowed me to have a consistent monthly paycheck even during the slow months (negative bank). I could drop trips, or split trips to get the time off that I needed. I could pass on reserve. I could sit long-call at home. Training overlaps were handled the way that vacation overlaps are handled here - trips dropped with pay that touched training.

Even the little things were better. Crew meals were offered on long legs or any leg that left the U.S. . Parking was paid for. Uniforms were paid for, hotel quality was contractual - long and short overnight hotels. You could get a buddy pass instantly (vs months later) by paying for it, with money... Not company currency that you need perfect attendance to earn.

It's a good airline and I'm making decent money. Schedule flexibility is good - but not great. But honestly, it's a lot like flying for a commuter with a great contract or a major with a relatively mediocre one.

Fwiw I typically bid around 90 TFP per month and then ELITT to try and get a few weekend days at home. Did around 150 TFP in August due to JA, extensions, reassignments... Felt like being on reserve again.

I was with a non-union operator since 9/11 so it's a whole lot better than that was, but not as good as I thought it would be.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Hear that, Bubba? Not everyone at the flying trailer park thinks everything there is perfect.

The point was that not having a flying cap allows one to work extra for extra pay, if you wanted or needed to. On the other hand, you don't have to if you don't want to. For instance, I typically fly my original line total, and occasionally less, while I tweak the trips for "better ones," which is my idea of quality of life. Lots of guys do this, while lots of other guys love picking up, especially for premium pay, to pad their paychecks.

The only entity that "gains" in having artificial work caps is a union, especially a national union, who is simply after more dues money. BTW, PCL, you've never explained how caps would help the average pilot. Why is that?

And I never said or even implied, that "everything was perfect" here. Never once did I say that. Obviously there are lots of things that can be done to improve things here, including the things that FurloughedAgain suggested in his post. Which, by the way, are actually unrelated to caps.

And speaking of caps, PCL, suppose our pilots actually wanted them for some reason, and our union then fought for them. That would cost the company big time, as they'd have to hire a lot more expensive pilots to do the exact same amount of flying, right? What would the union have to give the company in return to get this? Wait, I know... How about unlimited domestic codeshare, or stub our flying out to low-cost regionals? Why not?--that seems to be the ALPA way.

FurloughedAgain: you don't have to be of the "fly hard every month till you die" philosophy. You can be like me, and be of the "fly the minimum, and enjoy life" philosophy. It's a choice. And as our friend the General says, having a choice is fantastic!!!!

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

BTW, PCL, you've never explained how caps would help the average pilot. Why is that?

Why? Because it's so blatantly obvious that you shouldn't have to have it explained to you. Caps force the company to properly staff the airline instead of gambling on people picking up enough flying to keep the schedule going. When the gamble doesn't work, involuntary assignments start. And I saw a ton of my SWA buddies complaining about extensions, reassignments, and junior assignments over the summer this year due to SWA's notoriously thin staffing.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Why? Because it's so blatantly obvious that you shouldn't have to have it explained to you. Caps force the company to properly staff the airline instead of gambling on people picking up enough flying to keep the schedule going. When the gamble doesn't work, involuntary assignments start. And I saw a ton of my SWA buddies complaining about extensions, reassignments, and junior assignments over the summer this year due to SWA's notoriously thin staffing.

I don't think so. Have you even noticed how airlines fly these days? I realize that a lot has actually changed since you actually flew the line. These days, every airline flys a lot more in the summer than they do in the winter. A lot. It's not like the good old days, with the same schedule all year, and just less-full planes in the winter. These days, the only way to "properly" staff an airline would be to furlough every winter, and pick the pilots up again in the summer. Is that what you'd prefer?

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

I flew the line 9 months ago. I don't think things have changed that much, bubba. And seasonal schedules are hardly a new thing.

 

[redflyer65]

The flexibility of NOT have a cap is awesome.

Want to work hard during the summer and clean up? It's there.

Want to fly your line and trade to maximize your time off? It's there, along with anything in between.

It would be nice for a straight drop like AirTran had. That would be a nice piece of the puzzle for even more flexibility.

Plenty of the premium trips this summer had 2-4 Deadheads for 1-2 day trips. That's not working hard. Hell, I had a MDW-OAK DH for PT that paid 8.1 for one leg. To each there own, I get both sides of the coin. Just not the cap.

 

[Tripower455]

The flexibility of NOT have a cap is awesome.

Want to work hard during the summer and clean up? It's there.

Want to fly your line and trade to maximize your time off? It's there, along with anything in between.

It would be nice for a straight drop like AirTran had. That would be a nice piece of the puzzle for even more flexibility.

Plenty of the premium trips this summer had 2-4 Deadheads for 1-2 day trips. That's not working hard. Hell, I had a MDW-OAK DH for PT that paid 8.1 for one leg. To each there own, I get both sides of the coin. Just not the cap.

I agree 100%. A cap would kill what little is left of our much taunted flexibility!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

And I never said or even implied, that "everything was perfect" here. Never once did I say that. Obviously there are lots of things that can be done to improve things here, including the things that FurloughedAgain suggested in his post. Which, by the way, are actually unrelated to caps.

I actually did mention caps, albeit briefly, in my rant.

Here is how they helped at the operator where I worked pre 9/11. We had an 85 hour cap. That meant that lines weren't constructed with more than 85 - although many were constructed with less. You would bid and pick up to get as close to 85 as possible. If you went over block and you exceeded 85, the remainder went into a negative bank.

When the bank was sufficient you could cash it out to drop a trip or a piece of a trip. What this allowed me to do was level my earnings. I knew that I would always get 85 credit hours per month. It was nice to be able to drop trips and not have to worry about losing pay (once the bank had some $$ in it).

I guess I'm just a little different than your average SW pilot. I want to earn a good living, but don't care about getting rich. I want to work as little as possible for as much money as possible. And I'd really like the GO to pay for employee parking, give us an industry standard retirement that doesn't require a match from me, and throw a box lunch at us on the way to that Aruba turn! ;-)

 

[tomgoodman]

Most guys at my airline (DAL) favored the cap, because it led to faster upgrades. The thinking was that flying a lot of hours actually costs you money, because pilots senior to you will do it too, and it would take you much longer to make CA.