SWA goes after RJs again

[PCL_128]

How about codeshare and scope?

Meaningless, since outsourcing RJs doesn't work for your business model. That's why the company has never pushed hard for it.

How about average daily guarantee of 6.5?

How about minimum day of 5.0?

These items force the pairing generator to create all non-commutable trips. There are better ways to skin that cat.

How about the highest 737 rates?

As a matter of fact, how about highest narrow body rates except for the Delta 757 which pays $3.00 an hour more?

Contracts are already in place at UAL and DAL that will exceed your rates in short order. After you factor in their retirement, they're already beating you by a significant margin.

 

[redflyer65]

Meaningless, since outsourcing RJs doesn't work for your business model. That's why the company has never pushed hard for it.

Haha, haha, haha, haha, haha, haha.


Absolutely......NO RJ's, NO codeshare, and even NO interline. Nobody comes close.


What an idiot. 'Nuff said.

 

[General Lee]

Come on you PFT sellout! Just admit it. Use that nut drainer of yours for something other than making friends at the gym! Admit it!
You took one of those dreadful RJ jobs that you despise so much. Couldn't get a job anywhere, so you bought your job, like the PFT troll you are!
It's ok, with close to 10,000 posts, you're just as much of a colossal doosh as genital lee!

This from a lav dumper.....but your dude friends "LUV" your blue hands and teeth. Drink up D-weed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Meaningless, since outsourcing RJs doesn't work for your business model. That's why the company has never pushed hard for it.



These items force the pairing generator to create all non-commutable trips. There are better ways to skin that cat.



Contracts are already in place at UAL and DAL that will exceed your rates in short order. After you factor in their retirement, they're already beating you by a significant margin.

PCL,

SWA doesn't seem to want to fly to small cities (outside of TX). They dropped 17 of your former AT cities, and then of course sub leased DL your 717s. It used to be SWA tried to find smaller communities and stay away from big, busy airports. Well, not anymore. So, RJs from smaller cities may not be in your future, even though your twin up in Canada (Westjet) has a "Regional" called Encore flying Dash-8-400s, and they will even be getting 5 767-300ERs for Hawaii service from Calgary and Edmonton.

As far as the rates go, there will be an increase at DL sometime in 2015 most likely, and RA also knows AA has a "me too" clause, so they will mirror DL's rates then.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

wave, about the only thing you have better than industry standard is minimum days off. Everything else is weak to downright awful. I'm amazed that your reserve pilots haven't completely revolted by now.

These are your words are they not?

Meaningless, since outsourcing RJs doesn't work for your business model. That's why the company has never pushed hard for it.
Do we, or do we not have industry leading scope and codeshare language?


These items force the pairing generator to create all non-commutable trips. There are better ways to skin that cat.
Are our ADG and minimum day industry leading or not?


Contracts are already in place at UAL and DAL that will exceed your rates in short order. After you factor in their retirement, they're already beating you by a significant margin.
Our are 737 rates industry leading or not?

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you are NOT entitled to your own FACTS. When you blatantly misrepresent demonstrable FACTS, you just look small, silly and petty.

 

[PCL_128]

No, I don't consider your ADG and min day industry leading, because they create worse schedules!

Industry leading pay? No!

I'll give you the industry leading scope, but as I said, it's basically irrelevant.

 

[HowardBorden]

No, I don't consider your ADG and min day industry leading, because they create worse schedules!

Industry leading pay? No!

I'll give you the industry leading scope, but as I said, it's basically irrelevant.

lead-ing;
1: coming in or ranking first : foremost.

When your ADG and min day are higher than anyone else's, that is by very definition, industry leading.

When your 737 pay is higher than anyone else's, that is by very definition, industry leading.

When your scope clause is better than anyone else's, that is by very definition, industry leading.

If you want to proclaim your opinion is that those things that are industry leading don't matter, then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but you can't change the facts.

 

[redflyer65]

Howie,

This is what it looks like when someone tries to defend the indefensible. Kind of like Jay Carney.

Just looks more and more like a fool every time they open their mouth.

Excellent entertainment though.

Again, Delta can't touch our...

1. Scope
2. Rigs/Work rules. (remember premium time for pretty much any schedule change)
3. Reserve days off.
4. Pay

We are behind on retirement. And Delta is improving on pay, and that's a good thing. But they would kill for the other items they don't have.

 

[PCL_128]

Howie, a number being bigger doesn't necessarily make it "leading." Reference golf scores, for example. If your ADG and min day mean I spend more days away from home because I can't commute, then it's not "leading."

 

[redflyer65]

So if commuting on both ends is the be-all, end-all...guess what? You'd make a TON less money in the long run for that commute. Which is a stupid argument in the end.

3 hour terminal walks at Delta and commutable on both ends? You can have it. I'll take the SW rig of 6.5/day, everyday and twice on Sunday.

 

[PCL_128]

You don't have to lose any money for it. Your schedules aren't exactly loaded with money, despite what you think. Our average line value was always a lot higher than yours, but with mostly commutable trips. It's about how the pairings are constructed, and constructing them with an artificial constraint that requires a min day of 5.0 will screw up commutable schedules every time.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie, a number being bigger doesn't necessarily make it "leading." Reference golf scores, for example. If your ADG and min day mean I spend more days away from home because I can't commute, then it's not "leading."

You absolutely can't win on this BS argument! The reason we average more days off than everyone else is exactly because of our industry leading rigs. We don't do 30 hour sits in out stations because of our industry leading rigs. If we sat in an out station for 30 hours (a day not spent at home), we would be paid a minimum of 5 TFP's or the ADG of 6.5 for doing so.

Industry leading pay? No!

Southwest 737: $216

Delta 737: $212
United: $205
Alaska: $200
American: $181
USAir: $181

Good Lord man, stop trying to defend these positions that are simply indefensible.

 

[waveflyer]

No, I don't consider your ADG and min day industry leading, because they create worse schedules!

Industry leading pay? No!

I'll give you the industry leading scope, but as I said, it's basically irrelevant.

Worse schedules.

This is simply an opinion on your part.

You say non-commutable- but this is airline 6 for me- 4 of which were hub and spoke -
It's that model which creates commutable schedules, not our rigs. Our bases are created when we reach a tipping point with terminators. A hub and spoke carrier has bases in their hubs-
It's just a different dynamic

Prove that one out a little more - how would lowering our rigs make better schedules. If there are other ways to skin that car- please demonstrate.

As for commutable my sleep improved and blood pressure dropped significantly when I got hired here.

I don't commute and I will say that I like getting off work and having a bank of flights to catch - just for when I want to travel.
It bums me out a little that SWA doesn't have that bc for me to travel now, it's go home, unpack, sleep, get back in the monkey suit and nonrev-
It's much nicer to just go when you're already there.
And I see how it sucks for commuters-
But for family and healthy living?

I love flying my PMs and keeping my sleep consistent.

117 didn't address it, but the #1 most fatiguing element of airline schedules is reversing your sleep schedule each and every week. Day 1: start late, maybe commute in in the morning. Fly til midnight-
Fly 4 days- and by the last day up at 4am to be done before that last bank or two.
Day 5 was always zombie day no matter how easy the flying in between was-
I also love that our model has me doing more flying in 3 days than I used to do in 4. And on much smaller duty times.
At hub and spoke, we routinely would fly 12+ hours- several times per month-
We bitch about 10 hours here.

It isn't perfect but my body goes to bed and wakes at the same time every day working or not-
And that will make one happier and healthier over time

 

[Nindiri]

And this is why we won't get a better contract.

 

[Scoot 11]

This from a lav dumper.....but your dude friends "LUV" your blue hands and teeth. Drink up D-weed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Slow day as a Skywest dispatcher, A'hole?
You better shine up those knee pads kid, cause the f/a you're blowing continues to give you wrong info!
D-bag!

 

[HowardBorden]

Our average line value was always a lot higher than yours, but with mostly commutable trips. It's about how the pairings are constructed, and constructing them with an artificial constraint that requires a min day of 5.0 will screw up commutable schedules every time.

What were the day off totals of these lines with "line values always a lot higher"?

At SWA we average 18 days off for line holders and 15 for reserve.

And as an aside, I am a commuter and I fly non-commutable trips about 2% of the time. Occasionally I will fly an AM trip simply because it fits where I need it to and I spend an extra night in a hotel. Every one of my PM trips do not require a hotel stay on the beginning or end of a pairing.

 

[waveflyer]

No nindiri-
We do need a better contract with improvements-
But pcl just doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[waveflyer]

Howie, it's not a commutable line unless you never need a hotel on your dime. Common at most airlines.

My point is that 4 day domestic trips are also the standard vs rare at SWA. The real comparison is a fully commutable, relatively inefficient 4 day at a hub and spoke vs out commutable on 1 side only, efficient, 3 day - out of pocket for the other night and all day to make the commute.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howie, it's not a commutable line unless you never need a hotel on your dime. Common at most airlines.

My point is that 4 day domestic trips are also the standard vs rare at SWA. The real comparison is a fully commutable, relatively inefficient 4 day at a hub and spoke vs out commutable on 1 side only, efficient, 3 day - out of pocket for the other night and all day to make the commute.

I never need a hotel on my dime. Sometimes I choose to pay for a hotel on my dime because it works out better for my scheduling needs. Normally, i.e. 98% of the time I fly PM trips. I commute in the day it begins in the AM, and I commute home on a red-eye the day it ends. The only time I buy a hotel room is when I choose to do so because it makes my life easier and that is done rarely at most.

 

[waveflyer]

Ah-
Well, lots of commutes have no such red-eyes- but I get you