SWA goes after RJs again

[Roomwithaview]

Dude,

You are flailing on an ocean without a raft!

You sign yourself up as a "Union Goon". And, then in the same breath, blame SWA for all of the rest of the industry's woes, and furthermore, try to blame us for DALs BK concessions, while conveniently ignoring the fact that ANY AIRLINE MGT TEAM (the trannies included) GLEEFULLY POINTED TO THE 30plus % pay reductions as reason to keep our wages as low as possible.

What a f*cking self absorbed tool you are! Get the f*ck out of our industry as fast as you can dude. You are the kind of fool that will easily get his a$$ handed to him by even the most remedial company negotiator.

For the rest of you that are in it for the long term-stop ignoring the mistakes of the past.

Band together and quit the d*ck measuring. Capitalize on the successes of your brethren, learn from their mistakes and prevent them for crippling you in the future.

BTW- you're welcome for showing you the righteous path on CODESHARE and PBS.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ahhhh. This is the crux of the problem for PCL. He HAS to reach back over 13 years to make an argument. And even that fails.

And yes, the SW guys prior to that retired multi-millions while plenty at DL, UA, NW etc are living off the PBGC at around 40k a year after the ALPA pensions were completely gutted. Re-read that difference folks, because it's stark. That equates to a difference of around 4 times for the SW guys.

But yet his still proud of that accomplishment. Absolutely amazing, in a very, very sad way.

I'm not a B.O.O.B and I certainly didn't get rich on any option pyramid scheme but there is not a dude that was hired when I was hired at any other airline that hasn't told me they would have GLADLY traded places with me. To discuss it any further than that would lower it to the PCL/LUMBERG/GLEE d*ck measuring.

 

[PCL_128]

Looks like I got under your skin. Not surprising since you were confronted with facts instead of your fantasies.

 

[waveflyer]

Stock options and ESPP are irrelevant to this discussion, because they don't help in the world of pattern bargaining, which is where RWAV wants his pat on the back that he doesn't deserve.

And no, you don't deserve credit for "holding things up," because they fell back to your level in the first place. The legacy carriers were only able to get the support in bankruptcy court for such massive cuts because they could point to SWA, JetBlue, and yes, AirTran, and say that their rates weren't in line with their competition. Own it.

Stock options sure do help pay the mortgage though

 

[waveflyer]

Ahhhh. This is the crux of the problem for PCL. He HAS to reach back over 13 years to make an argument. And even that fails.

And yes, the SW guys prior to that retired multi-millions while plenty at DL, UA, NW etc are living off the PBGC at around 40k a year after the ALPA pensions were completely gutted. Re-read that difference folks, because it's stark. That equates to a difference of around 4 times for the SW guys.

PBGC guys getting 40k a year living in a 'starter home', vs.
SW guys having well over 3 million getting 120k/yr on a 4% draw.

Really embarrassing for ALPA.

But yet his still proud of that accomplishment. Absolutely amazing, in a very, very sad way.

You know, I was always taught it's not necessarily how you start, but how you finish.
Right?



Can't retire off the pride of a short lived massive contract

 

[Roomwithaview]

Looks like I got under your skin. Not surprising since you were confronted with facts instead of your fantasies.

Haven't seen one fact yet bro.

Those posts of mine aren't from some imaginary website CNN WSJ, Sentinel. You pick

 

[waveflyer]

Dude,

You are flailing on an ocean without a raft!

You sign yourself up as a "Union Goon". And, then in the same breath, blame SWA for all of the rest of the industry's woes, and furthermore, try to blame us for DALs BK concessions, while conveniently ignoring the fact that ANY AIRLINE MGT TEAM (the trannies included) GLEEFULLY POINTED TO THE 30plus % pay reductions as reason to keep our wages as low as possible.

What a f*cking self absorbed tool you are! Get the f*ck out of our industry as fast as you can dude. You are the kind of fool that will easily get his a$$ handed to him by even the most remedial company negotiator.

For the rest of you that are in it for the long term-stop ignoring the mistakes of the past.

Band together and quit the d*ck measuring. Capitalize on the successes of your brethren, learn from their mistakes and prevent them for crippling you in the future.

BTW- you're welcome for showing you the righteous path on CODESHARE and PBS.

He calls himself pro labor, but is really just pro alpa.

Otherwise he'd be all for the most unionized airline in the United States. Meanwhile, delta is the least unionized carrier and he has them on the pedestal.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Wave

He calls himself pro labor, but is really just pro alpa.

Otherwise he'd be all for the most unionized airline in the United States. Meanwhile, delta is the least unionized carrier and he has them on the pedestal.

Make no mistake-I don't believe for a minute that PCL or any other self professed tranny union goon was truly pro pilot. Otherwise they wouldn't have been s*cking eastern scab wanker from their Flt ops mgt team. MGT says, "Eastern Scab?"

PCL and the boys say-NO PROBLEM!

Thanks ALPULL!!

 

[PCL_128]

He calls himself pro labor, but is really just pro alpa.

Otherwise he'd be all for the most unionized airline in the United States. Meanwhile, delta is the least unionized carrier and he has them on the pedestal.

Companies aren't unionized, crafts and classes are. I think it's shameful that the pilots and dispatchers are the only unionized groups at Delta. And I think it's great that so many groups are unionized at SWA. But SWAPA isn't a real union. As Captain Moak says, "independent union is an oxymoron."

 

[Roomwithaview]

Companies aren't unionized, crafts and classes are. I think it's shameful that the pilots and dispatchers are the only unionized groups at Delta. And I think it's great that so many groups are unionized at SWA. But SWAPA isn't a real union. As Captain Moak says, "independent union is an oxymoron."

You mean "not a real union" because we haven't overseen a HUGE CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT?

That kind of "real ness" you can have.

 

[PCL_128]

You keep forgetting that you are partly the cause of those huge concessionary contracts. Because you didn't care about being a part of the collective group and working on pattern bargaining. Which is what makes you "not a real union."

 

[waveflyer]

You yourself say individual MEC's still have autonomy.
What's the difference then?

Seems like we still pattern bargain no matter what.

Unless you claim there is an overall strategy at alpa?

Is there?
Because it has eluded most of us for at least 20 years.

 

[PCL_128]

Autonomy is not the same thing as isolationism.

 

[Roomwithaview]

You keep forgetting that you are partly the cause of those huge concessionary contracts. Because you didn't care about being a part of the collective group and working on pattern bargaining. Which is what makes you "not a real union."

Pattern Bargaining?

Are you effing serious?

I don't want to be any part of a concessionary bargaining while my company is making profits hand over fist.

Get your own house in order ALPULL! You guys f*cked up the RJ and the CODESHARE equation, yet we showed you the path to rigthtousness on it. Still haven't figured it out have you. OBTW, thanks for BABBITT!

 

[Nindiri]

I'm not familiar with Roomwithaview, but he seems awfully angry every time he posts. Is he always this way, or is his righteous fury something recent? He doesn't seem very happy.

 

[PCL_128]

He's desperate for validation, and angry when you don't provide it to him. I think he should see a shrink.

 

[waveflyer]

Autonomy is not the same thing as isolationism.

Thanks.
Could you answer the question

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks.
Could you answer the question

The Representation Department and the Collective Bargaining Committee work together to craft an overall strategy, but MECs do have the autonomy to set their own goals in bargaining.

 

[Roomwithaview]

He's desperate for validation, and angry when you don't provide it to him. I think he should see a shrink.

Oh-hey look! It's Dan Roman, amateur practicing psychologist dressed up as a wannabe airline pilot!
Two words.

New Material!

Try harder. You're embarrassing yourself.

Nindri? Added to the ignore list with the other FLFIO special ed candidate.

 

[waveflyer]

What would you say the strategy was concerning outsourcing?

Can you understand how someone with our background would not feel much loyalty to any strategy that allowed such explosive growth of a seniority scam?

And when I say allowed- unity could have stopped it in its baby phases. And just look at delta again releasing scope when out of bankruptcy.

Can you see how any long term strategy might just be considered dumb and short sighted. So it might be best to align with another organization that repair the current one?

 

[waveflyer]

Nindiri-
Room is special

 

[redflyer65]

Make no mistake-I don't believe for a minute that PCL or any other self professed tranny union goon was truly pro pilot. Otherwise they wouldn't have been s*cking eastern scab wanker from their Flt ops mgt team. MGT says, "Eastern Scab?"

You almost got it right Room...

It's Eastern Scab c*m guzzling wanker! Get it right next time.

This guy is the biggest ALPO doosh around. He doesn't have the intelligence to think outside the box. Never has, never will.

Good thing he's selling Single Wides in West GA. Hopefully he can move up to Double Wides soon. Fingers crossed!

 

[Nindiri]

Nindiri-
Room is special

Poor guy is going to have a coronary right here on the message board.

 

[Scoot 11]

I'm not familiar with Roomwithaview, but he seems awfully angry every time he posts. Is he always this way, or is his righteous fury something recent? He doesn't seem very happy.

Most of these pay for training sellouts are angry. They had to lower themselves and the bar and are looking for justification.
Their whole schtick is kinda comical.

 

[ron burgundy]

The Representation Department and the Collective Bargaining Committee work together to craft an overall strategy, but MECs do have the autonomy to set their own goals in bargaining.

Obviously...

1780(+/-) AT pilots bear witness to that fact...When they were not allowed to have a say/VOTE on their own future!

 

[PCL_128]

Make sure to bitch to your Congressman the next time he does his job and votes on something on your behalf.

 

[Flopgut]

Good for you guys, Bill. Believe me when I say I'm genuinely ecstatic that DAL and the rest of the big boys have finally come out of the BK car wash and are FINALLY adding something substantive to Industry pilot pay compensation pool. It's making it much easier for us (or should be) to make our case for better pay, QOL and bennies.

It's tough shouldering that responsibility on your own while the rest of the industry is in the tank. But, YOU'RE WELCOME for keeping the bar UP for the last umpteen years.

Holy sh1t! Easy there Punkin, the BK car wash lasted about half the number of years that your airline was an absolute ANCHOR on wages and retirement. And that was BANKRUPTCY! Let that sink in for a sec. 20+ years pal. And the old guys leaving with lotsa stock doesn't make it right (Howr that work out for you? Or say a SWA new hire? What can they look forward to?)

Big picture: 20,000 ft view: You've been around half as long as the legacies. Their first 40 years looked a lot like SWA's. Now you all get to deal with the next 40. If you think it looks like the last 40, you're lying to yourself. Good luck.

 

[Flopgut]

Stock options sure do help pay the mortgage though

So if means justify the end, what's wrong with RJs? Or for that matter crossing a picket line? Don't get me wrong, I loathe those two things. But if those were what put certain pilots ahead would you be ok with it? That's exactly what your post suggests. Also, you quoted a very good point that PCL made: you don't deserve any credit for holding the bar. Your airline helped tear it down to begin with (to exactly where you were), and you've never surpassed where the bar had been set.

Big picture: Our Country's economy could not run on SWA alone. If we had to theorize a way SWA could do it, there would be no version of it that did not include outsourcing. Sorry. I know you believe you're all scope Christ figures, but you forget your history. We had regulation, and we had small airlines, and for some reason it was abandoned. If SWA quadrupled destinations and kept it all in house, it would be torn down by the next version of SWA.

Airlines are like a family. We don't like each other, but still family. SWA is an embarrassment to the family. You can't get your compliance sh1t right, can't [wont] fly different airplanes, and you can't do business with any sort of rules that would apply to all. That is going to bite your ass at some point.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You guys realize that most pilots just go to whatever airline hires them right? There isn't much targeted selection in this business, so this whole "my airline is better than yours" garbage is wasted testosterone. We are all just guys trying to make a living, spend as much time at home with the family as possible. As long as the paycheck cashes every week I don't care what happens at any other airline. I'm happy for their success (even the ones that furloughed me).

Calm down everybody. We need to keep the medical to make it to 65.

 

[redflyer65]

You guys realize that most pilots just go to whatever airline hires them right? There isn't much targeted selection in this business, so this whole "my airline is better than yours" garbage is wasted testosterone. We are all just guys trying to make a living, spend as much time at home with the family as possible. As long as the paycheck cashes every week I don't care what happens at any other airline. I'm happy for their success (even the ones that furloughed me).

Your almost right FA. But there are some that can't get hired at certain airlines and never would even get a call. Things like not college degree for some, or being fired at another 121 carrier. But other than that, you're right.