Delta the Least Respected Brand in America

[maxblast72]

Are you seriously insinuating that some Northwest guys didn't get the shaft in your SLI? That's funny.

Here's another hint....

The NW/DL merger is done and over, and..

So is the SW/AT merger. But for some reason GL likes to still bring up history. Do you see anyone else on here talking about the DL merger? Why? Because it's over and done. Pointless.

Redflyer, the General is just upset that Delta has to use $700-800 million of cash from operations every year to fund the pension plan while Southwest uses that same $700-800 million of cash from operations to pay cash for 20-30 brand new B737-800s.

 

[dicko]

Bubba,

As I said before, it's a shell game. Our Chief Pilot is a SWA pilot. His underboss is on SWA Manager pay. He's on the AirTran seniority list and voted. There's a Single Operating Certificate. AirTran pilots receive Southwest profit sharing. The profits we make are Southwest profits. Every AirTran pilot works for Southwest, under a convenient shell called AirTran. Our work is outsourced by Southwest on a lower pay scale.

Perhaps we're like Comair ? They were owned by Delta yet operated separately. That's outsourcing isn't it Bubba ? You dont like that, right Bubba ? Your allowing it with the same aircraft type at a lower pay.

You're having to split hairs in order to justify your reasoning. It's a temporary B Scale and its outsourcing. Approved by SWAPA in exchange for a seniority bump. You're unable to call it a B Scale and outsourcing because its embarrassing and doesn't fit your self image. Individually, and as a group.

I'll let you get back to harassing Delta pilots because they outsource their flying for lower pay, to companies they own. Which part of that doesn't fit you ?

 

[Scoot 11]

6 pages of....NEVERMIND!

 

[dicko]

In unrelated news:

After years of being either the top airline, or in the top three for on time arrivals and baggage handling - AirTran is now second last as of June 2013. 15 out of 16.

We did beat American Eagle. So we've got that going for us.

 

[waveflyer]

6 pages of....NEVERMIND!

Exactly...

Shouldn't this thread be about delta not being anywhere close to the worst brand-

Media bs

 

[Dan Roman]

Exactly...

Shouldn't this thread be about delta not being anywhere close to the worst brand-

Media bs

Spot on......no offense to other carriers, but I don't think anyone thinks DAL could hardly be considered the worst airline in the U.S.
I assume someone with an ax to grind is behind this.

 

[Scoot 11]

Exactly...

Shouldn't this thread be about delta not being anywhere close to the worst brand-

Media bs

Looks like someone needs a diaper change...

 

[SWA Bubba]

......

You're having to split hairs in order to justify your reasoning. It's a temporary B Scale and its outsourcing. Approved by SWAPA in exchange for a seniority bump. You're unable to call it a B Scale and outsourcing because its embarrassing and doesn't fit your self image. Individually, and as a group.

I'll let you get back to harassing Delta pilots because they outsource their flying for lower pay, to companies they own. Which part of that doesn't fit you ?

Sorry, Dicko, but it's you playing a game of terminology.

NOT giving you a raise to do the same flying you've been doing under your contract, just because of an ownership change, doesn't make the rates you agreed to earn a "B-scale." You negotiated them; you got the best deal your company could afford. They are, in fact, AirTran's 'A' scale. Why do you think you now deserve more money than you agreed to, for doing the same job you've been doing? You've got AirTran pilots on this forum bragging about short, easy days and long layovers, and then complaining about how much work they'll have to do on the Southwest side. AirTran's business model is less efficient than Southwest, and won't support the higher payscale. But you just want more money for doing your old, less-efficient flying? Why? Just because? The fact is, if AirTran employees were paid Southwest rates for the flying that they did, AirTran would lose money. What part of THAT doesn't fit you, Dicko?

Anyway, in case you haven't been watching, I'm not harassing Delta pilots about anything, other than refuting General Lee's anti-SWA rants. As far as taking Delta to task for outsourcing, you must be confusing me with Wave.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba,

.....
You're having to split hairs in order to justify your reasoning. It's a temporary B Scale and its outsourcing. Approved by SWAPA in exchange for a seniority bump. You're unable to call it a B Scale and outsourcing because its embarrassing and doesn't fit your self image. Individually, and as a group.

I'll let you get back to harassing Delta pilots because they outsource their flying for lower pay, to companies they own. Which part of that doesn't fit you ?

And not to beat a dead horse, but you have the "SWAPA-approved/seniority bump" part backwards, actually. It was YOUR union that gave up SWAPA pay rates for a seniority bump (from SL-9 to SL-10). From the first agreement to the second agreement, AirTran pilots improved their overall seniority, and conversely, Southwest pilots' overall seniority was worsened, in "return" for AirTran pilots not getting SWAPA rates.

And lest we forget, SWAPA doesn't pay pilots' salaries; the company does. And it was management who came up with the majority of both deals, including who gets paid what when, after concluding they shouldn't have offered the pay on the first deal. I know, I know... More "semantics" that doesn't fit your victimization complex.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Looks like someone needs a diaper change...

You might want to read it again, Scoot; I think he was sticking up for you.

Bubba

 

[Scoot 11]

You might want to read it again, Scoot; I think he was sticking up for you.

Bubba

No Bubba, I got it right. His childish infatuation with Delta is noted. I still think his diaper is dirty, and it might be time for his bottle.

 

[scoreboardII]

Bubba,

As I said before, it's a shell game. Our Chief Pilot is a SWA pilot. His underboss is on SWA Manager pay. He's on the AirTran seniority list and voted. There's a Single Operating Certificate. AirTran pilots receive Southwest profit sharing. The profits we make are Southwest profits. Every AirTran pilot works for Southwest, under a convenient shell called AirTran.Which ends when again? Our work is outsourced by Southwest on a lower pay scale. Which ends when again exactly, and was voted overwhelmingly by let me think, AirTran pilots.

Perhaps we're like Comair ? They were owned by Delta yet operated separately. That's outsourcing isn't it Bubba ? No, Comair is outsourcing, what is happening at SWA is the winding down of AT, you know that's happening right? You're seeing fewer and fewer 737's and 717's every week, guys going through SWA training to become SWA pilots. Nothing like what happens with Comair. You dont like that, right Bubba ? Your allowing it with the same aircraft type at a lower pay. But it all drops dead Sep 2014 or Jan 1 2015. Does Comair have a drop dead date?

You're having to split hairs in order to justify your reasoning. I would say a separate company operated in perpetuity and one that is being dismantled with an end date, is not splitting hairs. It's a temporary B Scale and its outsourcing. 50% right, it's a B scale approved by all AT pilots, but it has and end date, also approved by AT pilots. Approved by SWAPA in exchange for a seniority bump. Wow you got one right. You're unable to call it a B Scale and outsourcing because its embarrassing and doesn't fit your self image. I'm unable to call it a B scale beyond the day any pilot becomes a SWA pilot, what is that, 40 or so a month, and the end date of 31 Dec 2014. Individually, and as a group.

added for content

 

[wms]

This thread took an unexpected turn. What difference do the things you guys are fighting about make? If you're happy where you are then be thankful and be glad someone else is happy where they are. And of its not your company then what's happening there isn't your business.

 

[waveflyer]

You might want to read it again, Scoot; I think he was sticking up for you.

Bubba

Hating runs strong in that one Bubba- he just wanted to use that line-

In the meantime- Delta's not close to the worst brand in the airlines (probably the beat of the big 3) much less across industries-

dumb article

 

[dicko]

But it all drops dead Sep 2014 or Jan 1 2015. Does Comair have a drop dead date?

That would have been funny if you weren't serious. Google Comair and check out their "drop dead date".

No, I'm not noticing less aircraft. Perhaps I need to pay more attention. We have all of our 717s on property still. With the exception of one painted in DAL colors. How many AirTran 737s have gone to SWA to date ........ ?

 

[General Lee]

That would have been funny if you weren't serious. Google Comair and check out their "drop dead date".

No, I'm not noticing less aircraft. Perhaps I need to pay more attention. We have all of our 717s on property still. With the exception of one painted in DAL colors. How many AirTran 737s have gone to SWA to date ........ ?

Rumor has it that 6 717s per month will be delivered until the end of the year instead of 3 per month, but it will return to 3 per month in Jan. There are a bunch parked at the hanger on the other side of 9R at ATL. I believe a couple may be down in MIA for the mx checks and wifi/paint job.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Ty Webb]

I'll give you a hint: In the process agreement (which you clearly haven't read), both unions AGREED to send the negotiated agreement to their respective constituencies for a vote. THEN, and only then, the next step was mediation and arbitration, IF either side voted down the agreement. It became clear that the ALPA leadership at AirTran had absolutely NO intention of honoring their word and allowing a vote. They were pushing to go straight to arbitration from the get-go.

That's why, General. Anything ELSE you'd like answered?

Bubba

Bubba, you are mistaken. The Merger Committee only had the authority to negotiate, it was never empowered to accept an Agreement, that authority rests with the MEC, just like during Contract Negotiations. You never give your negotiators the ability to accept the Agreement, that is standard, and I'm sure SWAPA's leadership also had the final authority as well.

It was up to the MEC to decide whether the Agreement brought back by the Merger Committee met the minimum standards, sending it out for Member Ratification, or to send them back to the table. If there was not a desire from the other party to continue negotiations, or if time ran out, it was to proceed to binding Arbitration, as agreed to under the Process Agreement.

Unfortunately, instead of proceeding under the Process Agreement, we got threatened with being parted out, and thus the underwhelming Agreement was overwhelmingly voted for.

 

[redflyer65]

Bubba, you are mistaken. the Merger Committee only had the authority to negotiate, it was never empowered to accept an Agreement . . . You never give your negotiators the ability to accept the Agreement, it has to be done by the MEC, just like during Contract Negotiations.

It was up to the MEC to decide whether the Agreement brought back by the Merger Committee met the minimum standards, sending it out for Member Ratification, or to send them back to the table. If there was not a desire from the other party to continue negotiations, or if time ran out, it was to proceed to binding Arbitration, as agreed to under the Process Agreement.

Unfortunately, instead of proceeding under the Process Agreement, we got threatened with being parted out, and thus the underwhelming Agreement was overwhelmingly voted for.

Your right Ty. The MEC piece was in there, but they never had any intent of sending anything out.....ever. Their end game was to run the clock out for arbitration. Didn't it take them three days to look over the agreement that they supposedly knew nothing about? Arbitration was their only game.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your right Ty. The MEC piece was in there, but they never had any intent of sending anything out.....ever. Their end game was to run the clock out for arbitration. Didn't it take them three days to look over the agreement that they supposedly knew nothing about? Arbitration was their only game.

Well, with a fool like MaxBlast representing us at the table, can ya blame them? :laugh: