SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[Crash Pad]

We only have two more years of this debate!

Lears New Years Resolution was smashed with little effort.

Bottom line, the MEC did exactly what Lear and Just thinking wanted. Congrats on the big win guys.

Lear I don't know how to tell you this but this deal seriously messed you up. The last thing you do at night and the first thing you do in the morning is post on here. You go on about your awesome life of 18 days at home and sweet PUJ overnights. What do you do with that free time? Post constantly on FI about the merger. Heck the last thing you did before you went out on NYE was come on here to post. NEW YEARS EVE!!! 45 min. before the limo showed up. WTF!!!! Grab some bubbly, tell the fiance how great she looks in that new dress, and ask if the tux your wearing makes your pecs look too big.

You claim to have a great fiance, kids, and more than enough money. The only concern you have is the drinks in PUJ and which super set would best highlight your delts. In reality we can see that your biggest concern is justifying your complete miss reading of SWA. I don't understand it either. A second generation pilot who still doesn't understand airline management is odd for me to grasp.

 

[Crash Pad]

Lear, while I can't argue that LH and others left much to be desired in the leadership department, it's just not right to blame them for the crapstorm that followed GK's threatening letter. If you want to blame anyone, blame the NC. They fomented the crapstorm. They spread fear. Making idiotic comments like "vote yes if you want a job, vote no if you don't." No matter what the MEC did, they never could have counteracted such nonsense. The NC signed our death warrant.

I'm sorry I'm not a super ALPA guy. Who selects the NC?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sorry I'm not a super ALPA guy. Who selects the NC?

The Chairman is elected by the Status Reps, and the other members are appointed by the MEC Chairman.

 

[Just thinking]

"Bottom line, the MEC did exactly what Lear and Just thinking wanted. Congrats on the big win guys..."

Not what I wanted...... SIA#1 or SIA#2....... wanted a fair integration.... nothing more nothing less.

Did not want GK to wade into the middle of negotiations between the unions and FLICK everything up. Did not want a management team to say one thing and do another. Did not want pilot groups pitted against each other. Did not want SWA to move at a glacial pace and miss out on millions and millions of dollars in synergies month after month.

Please stop deluding yourself thinking that the FAT group is nothing but a bunch of ALPA pom pom girls..... ALPA was voted in for adult supervision because of the dysfunctional in house union with excessive costs. (something that SWAPA members can empathize with?) Access to ALPA resources. (SWAPA plagiarized the DALPA contract comparison without even a courtesy call or "by your leave".)

The FAT pilot group is a professional pilot group that has consistently provided to the bottom line for SWA. We will continue to do so.

 

[PCL_128]

Do we have to call your wife to take away your computer access again?

Classic.

 

[maxblast72]

Did not want SWA to move at a glacial pace and miss out on millions and millions of dollars in synergies month after month.

SWA made a net profit around $350 million in 2011, will announce in 2 weeks their 2012 net profit (which should be around $400 million), and Wall Street analysts are predicting a $700 million net profit in 2013.

Just imagine how strong SWA will be once you sit down with Gary Kelly and Mike Van de Ven and show them how to run the airline

 

[Crash Pad]

The Chairman is elected by the Status Reps, and the other members are appointed by the MEC Chairman.

Ok so the whole thing falls squarely on the MEC and LH.

 

[Lear70]

We only have two more years of this debate!

Lears New Years Resolution was smashed with little effort.

Yeah, it's Max, he knows how to get my goat pretty quickly. I can ignore a lot of the SWA peeps and even our own guys who are still venting their frustration. Max, on the other hand, having been a NC member, just can't be ignored when he goes off the reservation.

Bottom line, the MEC did exactly what Lear and Just thinking wanted. Congrats on the big win guys.

Yep. I have apologized for that misjudgment before and I will continue to do so. I should have realized sooner that GK would do whatever he needed to do, including threatening to void the signed Process Agreement, to get what he wanted accomplished.

I'll have to live with that.

Lear I don't know how to tell you this but this deal seriously messed you up. The last thing you do at night and the first thing you do in the morning is post on here. You go on about your awesome life of 18 days at home and sweet PUJ overnights. What do you do with that free time? Post constantly on FI about the merger.

Yes, it did. I have a thing about honesty, fairness, and integrity, and don't deal well when those are twisted, maligned, and tossed out the window.

And in all fairness, you're right there along with me, and everyone else on here, guilty of that last sentence above.

Heck the last thing you did before you went out on NYE was come on here to post. NEW YEARS EVE!!! 45 min. before the limo showed up. WTF!!!! Grab some bubbly, tell the fiance how great she looks in that new dress, and ask if the tux your wearing makes your pecs look too big.

I did. Then waited another half hour while she finished up. Perfection doesn't come quickly is what I always tell her when she apologizes for taking so long getting ready.

You claim to have a great fiance, kids, and more than enough money. The only concern you have is the drinks in PUJ and which super set would best highlight your delts. In reality we can see that your biggest concern is justifying your complete miss reading of SWA. I don't understand it either. A second generation pilot who still doesn't understand airline management is odd for me to grasp.

Not MORE than enough, but we do OK with what we have. Could always find ways to spend more, but don't HAVE to have it.

The misjudgement came from thinking SWA management was different than other airlines' management teams. They simply do things with a smile and a "please". When that fails, the end result is like any other management team.

I don't think I'm any more guilty of that than anyone else at AirTran. We really did think that it would be different at Southwest. As you said, a 2nd generation pilot should have known better. I have to live with that, too.

Would be easier if Max didn't come on here twisting events to self-justify. I admit my shortcomings. He should, too. Then we can all move on and stop beating the dead horse.

:deadhorse:

:beer:

 

[Dash Power]

The misjudgement came from thinking SWA management was different than other airlines' management teams. They simply do things with a smile and a "please". When that fails, the end result is like any other management team.

I don't think I'm any more guilty of that than anyone else at AirTran. We really did think that it would be different at Southwest. As you said, a 2nd generation pilot should have known better. I have to live with that, too.



:deadhorse:

Who is we?

 

[Lear70]

Who is we?

Pretty much every AirTran pilot.

That was part of the celebration initially. Thinking we'd get out from a management group that was stonewalling us in negotiations, acrimonious in grievance issues, etc, get a "fair" integration and move down the road. (without getting into what people think was "fair" or not, I'm not going there).

Now SWA management has put SWAPA on ice for THEIR negotiations, and come to find out that the grievance process for things that can't be settled with a Ronald McDonald van doesn't go any faster there than it does here...

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an AirTran pilot who wasn't excited when the announcement came out, just as now you'd be hard-pressed to find an AirTran pilot who would tell you that they weren't unpleasantly surprised at how this all turned out. Are they moving on? Sure. Is it what they thought it would be? Nope.

Not exactly "news". Same stuff people have said before on here. No AirTran pilots expected SWA management to insert themselves into the middle of a A/M seniority integration with M/B on the books. It's never been done before. Ever. Except at Southwest, and that was before M/B. Should have learned from history.

 

[RLAblows]

Who is we? is right. There were plenty of us that knew SWA management were cut throat. All one has to do is read SWA history. SWA wanted only 4 things, international, ATL, 737's, and get rid of the competition. Mainly to get rid of the competition. GK never wanted the 717. He made that perfectly clear after DOCC every time he was asked about them. Why the union never confronted him on that one I'll never know.

He was making us transition bid on a plane that he openly said he was trying to get rid of! The MEC never asked why? That's a different story, but none the less, mind boggling.

The real mistake that was made was putting blind faith in documents such as Bond MacAskill and our process agreement. All of those meant nothing if the 717's went away. Not one MEC member came forth and said what the risks were if this scenario unfolded. Most just chose to say, "he's bluffing." It was the blind leading the blind. Just refer to the same old ALPA spent playbook of failed mergers. Business as usual.

 

[madjack]

It was SO great that u threatened a strike...get real

 

[Ty Webb]

Who is we? is right. There were plenty of us that knew SWA management were cut throat. All one has to do is read SWA history. SWA wanted only 4 things, international, ATL, 737's, and get rid of the competition. Mainly to get rid of the competition. GK never wanted the 717. He made that perfectly clear after DOCC every time he was asked about them. Why the union never confronted him on that one I'll never know.

He was making us transition bid on a plane that he openly said he was trying to get rid of! The MEC never asked why? That's a different story, but none the less, mind boggling.

The real mistake that was made was putting blind faith in documents such as Bond MacAskill and our process agreement. All of those meant nothing if the 717's went away. Not one MEC member came forth and said what the risks were if this scenario unfolded. Most just chose to say, "he's bluffing." It was the blind leading the blind. Just refer to the same old ALPA spent playbook of failed mergers. Business as usual.

Blah, Blah, Blah . . .

I disagree with you on pretty much every of your points, but it's not worth the time to debate you on it.

So, have a nice life, buddy. I know I will.

 

[dicko]

The MC was consistent from July 16th through August 18th in strongly recommending to the MEC to allow our pilots to vote in light of what was said by Gary Kelly at the July 14th meeting. No Thursday afternoon quarterbacking here

That's quite an accolade. The MC was consistent for 33 days. Impressive.

 

[Lear70]

Like I said, it's over.

There were expectations on both sides that were not met. While we could spend the rest of our lives debating whether those expectations were realistic, it's just not worth it.

We'll adjust, we'll move on, we'll find a happy place, do our jobs, and go on with our lives, and that's all that can be expected of us, truth be told.

Everything else is just a distraction. Sorry I got pulled in again. :beer:

 

[RLAblows]

Blah, Blah, Blah . . .

I disagree with you on pretty much every of your points, but it's not worth the time to debate you on it.

So, have a nice life, buddy. I know I will.

So enlighten me TY. The 717s ARE leaving. You can't deny or debate that.

 

[Dash Power]

Like I said, it's over.

There were expectations on both sides that were not met. While we could spend the rest of our lives debating whether those expectations were realistic, it's just not worth it.

We'll adjust, we'll move on, we'll find a happy place, do our jobs, and go on with our lives, and that's all that can be expected of us, truth be told.

Everything else is just a distraction. Sorry I got pulled in again. :beer:

Sorry you got pulled in but yet spend much time instigating more disenchantment with those on this board? You may be transparent to others but not to me. You are defined as a manipulator.

"We", are mostly on this board. All the others I have met on line both pilots and flight attendants seem very happy. Specifically stating how great SWA treats their employees compared to how AT did.

I know, I know, they are are lying because they are afraid.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry you got pulled in but yet spend much time instigating more disenchantment with those on this board?

I don't instigate anything. You trying to paint me into that corner isn't going to work.

You may be transparent to others but not to me. You are defined as a manipulator.

Only in your eyes and maybe 2 or 3 other people on here. The simple truth is that you don't like anyone who doesn't "rah rah" about Southwest. That's fine, you don't have to like me. But the simple fact that others don't see the same thing you do in my posts should be your big sign... you know, the sign that says maybe you need to re-think your "label"?

Just a thought. I pretty much don't care whether you think so or not (or much of anyone else on here), I just have no interest in seeing history re-written to something it was not.

"We", are mostly on this board. All the others I have met on line both pilots and flight attendants seem very happy. Specifically stating how great SWA treats their employees compared to how AT did.

I know, I know, they are are lying because they are afraid.

No, they're simply being non-confrontational in their job setting because they're professionals.

Professionals don't stir the pot like you do. But thanks for your input! So glad you're here... (that's passive-aggressive again in case you still don't understand the definition).

 

[SWAdude]

How could anyone with an ounce of knowledge of SWA's 40 year history of their business model strongly consider that the 717's didn't fit.

I thought it at least a good possibility that SWA would either quickly, or slowly retire, or find new homes, for the bastard aircraft in their fleet.

How about we ACT like we are on the same team and move on. NOTHING is going to change. How about we all grow up a bit here and act like the professionals we expected to be treated as such. Or continue to be our own worst enemy.

There is a section 6 going on here that ALL of us will be working under. A far more important reason to be unified than dwelling about the past.

Good luck to us all.

 

[Dash Power]

I don't instigate anything. You trying to paint me into that corner isn't going to work.


Only in your eyes and maybe 2 or 3 other people on here. The simple truth is that you don't like anyone who doesn't "rah rah" about Southwest. That's fine, you don't have to like me. But the simple fact that others don't see the same thing you do in my posts should be your big sign... you know, the sign that says maybe you need to re-think your "label"?

Just a thought. I pretty much don't care whether you think so or not (or much of anyone else on here), I just have no interest in seeing history re-written to something it was not.


No, they're simply being non-confrontational in their job setting because they're professionals.

Professionals don't stir the pot like you do. But thanks for your input! So glad you're here... (that's passive-aggressive again in case you still don't understand the definition).

Yeah. Professionals like you, huh. I am stirring the pot, huh.

Again, your transparency is very apparent to me.

Hide an insult with a grin.......

Lear 70, Do you not deserve your reputation off this board? And I am certain you know, you do. I would be ashamed if I had yours.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

No, they're simply being non-confrontational in their job setting because they're professionals.

The arrogance of this statement is overwhelming. How on earth would you know what these individuals would be thinking.

So essentially you say no, then say they are lying to be professional. WTF??

 

[Dash Power]

How could anyone with an ounce of knowledge of SWA's 40 year history of their business model strongly consider that the 717's didn't fit.

I thought it at least a good possibility that SWA would either quickly, or slowly retire, or find new homes, for the bastard aircraft in their fleet.

How about we ACT like we are on the same team and move on. NOTHING is going to change. How about we all grow up a bit here and act like the professionals we expected to be treated as such. Or continue to be our own worst enemy.

There is a section 6 going on here that ALL of us will be working under. A far more important reason to be unified than dwelling about the past.

Good luck to us all.

I agree. You are right.

 

[Dash Power]

The arrogance of this statement is overwhelming. How on earth would you know what these individuals would be thinking.

So essentially you say no, then say they are lying to be professional. WTF??

Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. Says it all really.

 

[Sy-bill]

I don't instigate anything. You trying to paint me into that corner isn't going to work.


Only in your eyes and maybe 2 or 3 other people on here. The simple truth is that you don't like anyone who doesn't "rah rah" about Southwest. That's fine, you don't have to like me. But the simple fact that others don't see the same thing you do in my posts should be your big sign... you know, the sign that says maybe you need to re-think your "label"?

Just a thought. I pretty much don't care whether you think so or not (or much of anyone else on here), I just have no interest in seeing history re-written to something it was not.


No, they're simply being non-confrontational in their job setting because they're professionals.

Professionals don't stir the pot like you do. But thanks for your input! So glad you're here... (that's passive-aggressive again in case you still don't understand the definition).

Good lord. Loaded with cheap shots.

When I read your posts, you are hypocritical within yourself. Comically you don't see this Mr. Lear 70.

 

[Ty Webb]

They ought to change the name of this thread to "The Monkey Cage".

It seems to have devolved into a bunch of primates with red, angry asses, chattering loudly and flinging handfuls of poo at each other. :laugh:

 

[SWAdude]

They ought to change the name of this thread to "The Monkey Cage".

It seems to have devolved into a bunch of primates with red, angry asses, chattering loudly and flinging handfuls of poo at each other. :laugh:

So true!

 

[ATLplt]

So essentially you say no, then say they are lying to be professional. WTF??

Talked to a guy in security today commuting to work...former AirTran. He hated the commute west, but said all the SWA peeps were nice to him so far. He was NOT happy in the slightest though. In fact, the exact words he used were, "It sucks". He keeps quiet about his displeasure on the line though and puts on a smile. Ask him how he likes it there, and I'll guarantee he'll lie straight to your face and say everything is fine. That's at least the 5th or 6th guy I've talked to that crossed and said they wish they hadn't gone over so soon. The others I've met out and about enjoy not commuting to ATL anymore, but hated losing their seat in the process.

I'm sure what you hear is the exact opposite. Go figure.

 

[Lear70]

I am stirring the pot, huh.

Yes, you are. I'm talking in generalities and not blaming you or the pilots of SWA for anything at all and you got personal.

Hide an insult with a grin.......

No, I pretty much put it right out there. There wasn't any "hiding" it at all. The grin was because I think you're a putz.

Lear 70, Do you not deserve your reputation off this board? And I am certain you know, you do. I would be ashamed if I had yours.

Ditto. You can't debate facts, constantly make things personal, and everyone knows it. Not worried about it in the slightest. If my "reputation" is that I believe our pilots should have been treated better in this process and that GK should have honored the Process Agreement, stayed out of it, and let it go to arbitration then integration as he promised in the Process Agreement, I'm good with that.

I've said as much to senior SWA management. I don't call anyone names. I don't get angry about it. But I also have ZERO tolerance for bullsh*t, yours included, and call things like I see them. If that's earned me a reputation... I'm good with that.

Like Winston Churchill said: "So you've made enemies? Good! That means you've stood up for something at least once in your life."

Good lord. Loaded with cheap shots.

As was his post. I don't respond personally unless someone attacks me personally first. You'll find I do the same in person.

When I read your posts, you are hypocritical within yourself. Comically you don't see this Mr. Lear 70.

As are you. Inferring that I should just take his personal attacks and not respond, and making a cheap shot yourself in the same post. I'll give you an example in your last post:

The arrogance of this statement is overwhelming. How on earth would you know what these individuals would be thinking.

You accuse me of being arrogant, your own cheap shot at me, then you berate me for taking "cheap shots"...

Pot paging Kettle... come in, Kettle.

The sheer ARROGANCE of people like you thinking that "ALL" the AirTran pilots (or even the majority of them) are just peachy happy with the way things happened is simply asinine. I mean you guys REALLY need to get over your own ego.

Will people move on and make the best of it? Sure. Do you REALLY think they're HAPPY with the way this worked out?

You're going to need a reasonable suspicion test. Seriously. Lay off the wacky weed.

 

[Hobiehawker]

Yes, you are. I'm talking in generalities and not blaming you or the pilots of SWA for anything at all and you got personal.


No, I pretty much put it right out there. There wasn't any "hiding" it at all. The grin was because I think you're a putz.


Ditto. You can't debate facts, constantly make things personal, and everyone knows it. Not worried about it in the slightest. If my "reputation" is that I believe our pilots should have been treated better in this process and that GK should have honored the Process Agreement, stayed out of it, and let it go to arbitration then integration as he promised in the Process Agreement, I'm good with that.

I've said as much to senior SWA management. I don't call anyone names. I don't get angry about it. But I also have ZERO tolerance for bullsh*t, yours included, and call things like I see them. If that's earned me a reputation... I'm good with that.

Like Winston Churchill said: "So you've made enemies? Good! That means you've stood up for something at least once in your life."


As was his post. I don't respond personally unless someone attacks me personally first. You'll find I do the same in person.


As are you. Inferring that I should just take his personal attacks and not respond, and making a cheap shot yourself in the same post. I'll give you an example in your last post:


You accuse me of being arrogant, your own cheap shot at me, then you berate me for taking "cheap shots"...

Pot paging Kettle... come in, Kettle.

The sheer ARROGANCE of people like you thinking that "ALL" the AirTran pilots (or even the majority of them) are just peachy happy with the way things happened is simply asinine. I mean you guys REALLY need to get over your own ego.

Will people move on and make the best of it? Sure. Do you REALLY think they're HAPPY with the way this worked out?

You're going to need a reasonable suspicion test. Seriously. Lay off the wacky weed.

I have been a lurker for a long time on these boards. And from the outside looking in, this thread would have died a long time ago if you didn't keep it alive. And you seem to be very unaware that you appear to have manic behavior. It really comes off as neurotic. Your replies are very immature in nature.

So now you will make some judgement of me based on the last five sentences.

I hope this board gets back to normal so I can get some useful information. This SWA hate thing is so old.

 

[Lear70]

I have been a lurker for a long time on these boards. And from the outside looking in, this thread would have died a long time ago if you didn't keep it alive.

If you say so. I had started letting everything go when Max came out of lurking from his wife's-imposed posting hiatus and started in. Go back and read the last few posts of mine before he posted.

And you seem to be very unaware that you appear to have manic behavior. It really comes off as neurotic. Your replies are very immature in nature.

LOL - if you say so. My fiance' is a practicing Psychiatrist... if I had "manic" behavior, I'm pretty sure she'd have noticed it a long time ago. Just celebrated our 2nd year since we met, she's had time to figure it out... IF it were there. Opinions vary, I guess.

So now you will make some judgement of me based on the last five sentences.

No, no judgment. You are entitled to your opinion, even if I don't agree with you. I'd PREFER if people would limit their opinion TO THE ISSUES, rather than get personal (like you also have done now), but hey... with the Webmaster letting this board be a free-for-all these days, why try to keep discussions on-topic?

I hope this board gets back to normal so I can get some useful information. This SWA hate thing is so old.

And that lets me know that you're a SWA employee. It's only perceived as "SWA hate" by SWA employees. Everyone else pretty much recognizes it as the angst accompanying a widely-unpopular SLI integration result, with people spewing angst on BOTH sides of the aisle...

But why let facts get in the way.