SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[slaquer5]

That's some funny stuff right there. Since you're a pretty big fan of TB, why don't you tell that to some US Air crews next time you pass thru KCLT. Tell them what a big fan you are, and what a great job he did over here, right before he bailed into the first train outta here, as he did in CLT. Then duck, because one of those guys might hit you in the mouth.

First of all most USAir pilots could not rip a wet paper bag.

Second, TB gave 100 percent and pushed more than anyone else I know would against SWA .

 

[PCL_128]

That's some funny stuff right there. Since you're a pretty big fan of TB, why don't you tell that to some US Air crews next time you pass thru KCLT. Tell them what a big fan you are, and what a great job he did over here, right before he bailed into the first train outta here, as he did in CLT. Then duck, because one of those guys might hit you in the mouth.

While I disagree wholeheartedly with TB's conclusions about our situation in the SLI, I never pass up an opportunity to defend him. Yes, even to the face of a USAirways East guy. Haven't been "hit in the mouth" yet for it, but I'll take the punch if I have to. He's worked his ass off for most of his career helping pilots, and those USAirways guys have TB to thank for the fact that they even have jobs at all. If not for his willingness to make a very difficult call that he knew would make him unpopular, that airline would have liquidated.

 

[dicko]

You're saying that US Air would have liquidated over pilot pensions ?

 

[maxblast72]

Maybe. Go check out Delta's latest annual report. Their pension plan is underfunded by about $11B. Delta is telling Wall St they expect 9% return on their assets in the plan. My guess is they won't get 9% with Bernanke driving down interest rates. At some point, Delta will have to increase their contribution to the pension plan or declare bankruptcy again to get rid of it. If I remember right, Delta is putting in about $700 million per year over the past few years.

 

[PCL_128]

You're saying that US Air would have liquidated over pilot pensions ?

Yes. You can read the details straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/InsideTheRingOfFire.pdf

 

[General Lee]

Maybe. Go check out Delta's latest annual report. Their pension plan is underfunded by about $11B. Delta is telling Wall St they expect 9% return on their assets in the plan. My guess is they won't get 9% with Bernanke driving down interest rates. At some point, Delta will have to increase their contribution to the pension plan or declare bankruptcy again to get rid of it. If I remember right, Delta is putting in about $700 million per year over the past few years.

Delta made $2.5 billion in ancillary revenue last year alone. (SWA made $1.1 Bllion). I think they can afford it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[maxblast72]

Yes. You can read the details straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/InsideTheRingOfFire.pdf

Good history lesson. But why let the numbers get in the way of making a point?

 

[maxblast72]

Delta made $2.5 billion in ancillary revenue last year alone. (SWA made $1.1 Bllion). I think they can afford it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Delta Airlines:

$13 billion total debt
$11 billion in underfunded pension plans
$623 million in interest costs in 2012 (through Q3)
$700 million in annual pension plan contributions

$1.8 billion operating profit in 2012 (through Q3)
Still running a stockholder deficit

Southwest Airlines:

$3 billion in total debt
$0 billion in underfunded pension plans
$112 million in interest expense in 2012 (through Q3)
$0 in annual pension plan contributions

$532 million operating profit (through Q3)
$7.0 billion in stockholder equity

General, there is a reason the S&P rates Southwest Airlines with a "BBB" credit rating while only rating Delta a "B-". You better hope Bernanke and the ECB continue to print trillions of dollars or the international yields that generate the bulk of Delta's profits will dry up pretty fast (making those debt and pension obligations feel like an 800 lb chain around Delta's neck).

 

[General Lee]

Delta Airlines:

$13 billion total debt
$11 billion in underfunded pension plans
$623 million in interest costs in 2012 (through Q3)
$700 million in annual pension plan contributions

$1.8 billion operating profit in 2012 (through Q3)
Still running a stockholder deficit

Southwest Airlines:

$3 billion in total debt
$0 billion in underfunded pension plans
$112 million in interest expense in 2012 (through Q3)
$0 in annual pension plan contributions

$532 million operating profit (through Q3)
$7.0 billion in stockholder equity

General, there is a reason the S&P rates Southwest Airlines with a "BBB" credit rating while only rating Delta a "B-". You better hope Bernanke and the ECB continue to print trillions of dollars or the international yields that generate the bulk of Delta's profits will dry up pretty fast (making those debt and pension obligations feel like an 800 lb chain around Delta's neck).

Max,


The debt is being cleaned up by over $2 billion per year over the last 4 years, from $18 billion a few years ago to $10 billion by the end of this year, and then a savings of $500 million per year in interest alone. With that type of revenue and profits coming in, the outlook still looks good. If your finances are as good as you say and show, then I am sure GK will not ask for any givebacks. If he does, show him this post. I hope you are right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[maxblast72]

Max,


The debt is being cleaned up by over $2 billion per year over the last 4 years, from $18 billion a few years ago to $10 billion by the end of this year, and then a savings of $500 million per year in interest alone. With that type of revenue and profits coming in, the outlook still looks good. If your finances are as good as you say and show, then I am sure GK will not ask for any givebacks. If he does, show him this post. I hope you are right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

There is no doubt Delta is doing much better today than 5 years ago. Delta had a productive trip through bankruptcy and did a great job of integrating Northwest quickly and efficiently. Luckily, as a current AirTran BRJ Captain, I never have to worry about a standalone AirTran competing with the "new" Delta.

However, Delta still has a significant debt load (which generates signficant interest expense to service) and a signficant (and growing) underfunded pension liability. So far, the richest 20% in this country are still spending as Bernanke continues to print trillions and Geithner continues to borrow trillions. As long as the richest 20% in this country keep spending, Delta will have enough profitability to service their debt and keep funding their pension plans. If the US goes into a recession (similar to southern Europe), Delta could struggle under the weight of these obligations.

I expect Gary Kelly to ask SWAPA for concession. I expect SWAPA to smile and say the numbers don't justify concessions Mr. Kelly. I don't mind if Kelly and SWAPA agree to get rid of cartels and some of the "soft" pay that occurs now. I am not expecting much of hard raise but rather some increased profit sharing formula or stock options. Some of the best performing companies in the country have performance based pay.

 

[Kenney G]

I expect Gary Kelly to ask SWAPA for concession. I expect SWAPA to smile and say the numbers don't justify concessions Mr. Kelly. I don't mind if Kelly and SWAPA agree to get rid of cartels and some of the "soft" pay that occurs now. I am not expecting much of hard raise but rather some increased profit sharing formula or stock options. Some of the best performing companies in the country have performance based pay.

Wow. This is the guy AirTran had fighting for their seniority? You just gave General Lee all the stats on how great southwest was doing and here you have a very defeatist attitude of not expecting a raise and you are ok with getting rid of soft pay. Soft pay at tends to mean QOL. You never give away that or work rules. You will never get them back and you basically are handing them back to management in exchange for what? Not much of a raise? POSSIBLE profit sharing?. I can see why AirTran pilots are in the position they are in.

 

[GIZMONC]

One of the reasons that DL/NW merged so quickly was WORLDSPAN. Both airlines were using same computer reservations system. Look at the problems WN/FL and UA/CO are having due to inferior reservations system. Wait and see what happens when US/AA make the announcement to merge. US Airways is using Shares which CO had. When CO/UA merged UA decided to move over to Shares. If Parker does not switch over from Shares that merger will be a total mess.

 

[PCL_128]

Wow. This is the guy AirTran had fighting for their seniority?

Yep. Kinda all makes sense now, doesn't it?

 

[PCL_128]

Max,


The debt is being cleaned up by over $2 billion per year over the last 4 years, from $18 billion a few years ago to $10 billion by the end of this year, and then a savings of $500 million per year in interest alone. With that type of revenue and profits coming in, the outlook still looks good. If your finances are as good as you say and show, then I am sure GK will not ask for any givebacks. If he does, show him this post. I hope you are right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, you have to understand that you're talking to the guy who engineered the biggest seniority giveaway in airline history. He has to make believe that everything will be roses and sunshine to even begin to justify it.

 

[maxblast72]

Wow. This is the guy AirTran had fighting for their seniority? You just gave General Lee all the stats on how great southwest was doing and here you have a very defeatist attitude of not expecting a raise and you are ok with getting rid of soft pay. Soft pay at tends to mean QOL. You never give away that or work rules. You will never get them back and you basically are handing them back to management in exchange for what? Not much of a raise? POSSIBLE profit sharing?.

You need to reread my post Kenny G.

"Hard" raise = pay rates
"Soft" raise = change in profit sharing formulas or stock options

If Gary Kelly pulls a $800-900 million net profit this year, your dam right we deserve a good chunk of that. Couple thousands share of LUV vested over time would work. That would probably reduce the number of Captains at AirTran that want to slow play the system.

I never said get rid of all "soft" time. I just said some of the extreme cases. PCL128, you gave the company (AirTran) back the URP credit in Contract 2010 and got something else in return. I find no fault with that.

 

[maxblast72]

General, you have to understand that you're talking to the guy who engineered the biggest seniority giveaway in airline history. He has to make believe that everything will be roses and sunshine to even begin to justify it.

General, you have to understand that you are talking to the guy who supports ALPA no matter what even if it runs all the ALPA majors into bankruptcy at one point or another

 

[freightdogfred]

First of all most USAir pilots could not rip a wet paper bag.

Second, TB gave 100 percent and pushed more than anyone else I know would against SWA .

By this statement, you admire his tenacity and ability. As evidenced by his service at two prior employments, I would expect his desire to continue his service as a career politician will continue. Perhaps with your support, and others so like-minded, his installment in a position of prominence at SWAPA will effect similar large gains such as those he has secured at his two previous tenures.

 

[Phlintstone]

I don't mind if Kelly and SWAPA agree to get rid of cartels and some of the "soft" pay that occurs now. I am not expecting much of hard raise but rather some increased profit sharing formula or stock options. Some of the best performing companies in the country have performance based pay.

That is called playing "not to lose." When you play that way, you never win. I guess that is why FL lost...a lot.

Phred

 

[slaquer5]

By this statement, you admire his tenacity and ability. As evidenced by his service at two prior employments, I would expect his desire to continue his service as a career politician will continue. Perhaps with your support, and others so like-minded, his installment in a position of prominence at SWAPA will effect similar large gains such as those he has secured at his two previous tenures.

I would vote for him in a New York second.

 

[FlyinGuy]

What is a New York second?

Is that how long it takes them to pass a bill to make law abiding citizens into criminals?