SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[Secret Squirrel]

No, sadly, they were not. And you know why? Because our Merger Committee made a deal with the SWAPA Merger Committee as part of the Process Agreement that there wouldn't be any lawyers allowed. Of course, that ignores the fact that the SWAPA Merger Committee has a pilot who is also a lawyer. And then there was management coming to the table, along with their lawyer who's been practicing law in the airlines for many, many years. Great job, Merger Committee!

Was this the MC that was put together by our MEC?

 

[Flyer1015]

Nah, ALPA gets a bad name because people with no experience or qualifications get into important positions (like, say, the Merger Committee) and screw things up.

Holy cow, your account has been hacked or you are finally seeing the light. Either case, well done.

 

[climbhappy]

Actually, I appreciate the "new and improved" General Lee. I appreciate you trying to be more civil, and eliminate the personal and inappropriate jabs that sometimes accompanied your points. And I can see that you're still being provoked, and are doing a pretty good job of not returning to name-calling and stuff. Good for you.

My point with Jim was that he jumped into a "discussion" between Airtran and Southwest pilots (not really me, but others) with an obvious jab calculated to put Southwest pilots "in their place." The problem was, the substance of his jab was untrue. There is NO SUCH letter from management as he described. Either he made it up (which I actually don't think), or he listened to pessimistic pilots bitching about the latest "we've got to save money" pitch from management, and in his mind somehow turned it into something dire that he could use in an argument. That's what I suspect actually happened. I seriously doubt that three Southwest pilots actually said that management wrote all the pilots a letter telling us that the company was "asking for pay cuts and concessions" (seeing as how it's completely untrue). Yet, that's the way he presented it on the forum to use as ammunition against Southwest pilots. Then of course his editorial comment added to further inflame.

Personally, I don't care if Jim likes Southwest of not. He's entitled to his opinion. It seems obvious that he thinks that we (or at least the ones represented on this forum) are arrogant and self-entitled. In all honesty, I don't care if it's his opinion that Southwest pilots collectively bent Airtran over and had their way with their wives, or however else he perceives the situation from his removed position. Everyone has an opinion, even the people who aren't involved and may or may not have all the facts. But when he puts out stuff like it's a fact, when a moment's thought would tell any reasonable and unbiased pilot that it's crap, then that's when I had to say something.

Back to the bitching and other entertainment.

Bubba

why bring the pilot' wives into this?....this latent thought of yours' that just came to the surface about doing the wives..have you had this before?..and why not just let it be you had your way with the airtran pilots?..the wives are innocent.. hey, you have a copy of deliverance on the shelf?:laugh:

 

[maxblast72]

No, sadly, they were not. And you know why? Because our Merger Committee made a deal with the SWAPA Merger Committee as part of the Process Agreement that there wouldn't be any lawyers allowed. Of course, that ignores the fact that the SWAPA Merger Committee has a pilot who is also a lawyer. And then there was management coming to the table, along with their lawyer who's been practicing law in the airlines for many, many years. Great job, Merger Committee!

The MC "owns" SIA #1. The former ATN MEC Vice Chair and former ATN LEC 71 Chair "own" SIA #2. Too bad there is a $300 million difference for AirTran pilots over the next decade. Also, there would have been 700-850 former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015. Now, it appears we might be heading to ZERO former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015.

Great job, ALPA Group B3 EVP!

 

[maxblast72]

Nah, ALPA gets a bad name because people with no experience or qualifications get into important positions (like, say, the Merger Committee) and screw things up.

TB and FE have been doing union work since you were still getting picked last on the playground for kickball games in elementary school. Not sure where you get there was no experience on the ATN MC.

 

[FIREMAN]

The MC "owns" SIA #1. The former ATN MEC Vice Chair and former ATN LEC 71 Chair "own" SIA #2. Too bad there is a $300 million difference for AirTran pilots over the next decade. Also, there would have been 700-850 former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015. Now, it appears we might be heading to ZERO former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015.

Great job, ALPA Group B3 EVP!

Who let SIA 2 out of the negotiating room?

Should had never seen the light of day!

 

[FlyinGuy]

There are some smart guys that work in unions. The others are goons that are in it for the money or power!! My guess is that there are more goons than brains in most operations.

 

[redflyer65]

Who let SIA 2 out of the negotiating room?

Should had never seen the light of day!

That's actually an interesting angle.

 

[PCL_128]

The former ATN MEC Vice Chair and former ATN LEC 71 Chair "own" SIA #2.

How exactly do they "own" something that they publicly opposed and voted against? Nice try, RB, but that dog don't hunt.

 

[Kharma Police]

TB and FE have been doing union work since you were still getting picked last on the playground for kickball games in elementary school. Not sure where you get there was no experience on the ATN MC.

Hold up Max, you need to give Piggy a little bit more credit. He was a Chief Pilot at Delta Virtual Airlines. So, you better recognize.

 

[PCL_128]

TB and FE have been doing union work since you were still getting picked last on the playground for kickball games in elementary school. Not sure where you get there was no experience on the ATN MC.

I wasn't talking about them.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

How exactly do they "own" something that they publicly opposed and voted against? Nice try, RB, but that dog don't hunt.

I thought SIA #2 was sent to the pilot group with a 8-0 vote? I don't remember anything but silence from the MEC. I also don't remember you saying anything at the road show I attended.

 

[maxblast72]

Who let SIA 2 out of the negotiating room?

Should had never seen the light of day!

The head of ALPA's representation department (a 30 year lawyer) traveled with us to Dallas for SIA #2 negotiations. His primary job was to keep RW and RM inline and make sure the train didn't come off the tracks (and open ALPA up to more liability). He provided JM and BS with guidance and help as SIA #2 was finished. It really didn't help that the ATN MEC cut us off at the knees by pre-approving SIA #2 to go out to the pilots for a vote prior to it being finished.

 

[Kenney G]

The MC "owns" SIA #1. The former ATN MEC Vice Chair and former ATN LEC 71 Chair "own" SIA #2. Too bad there is a $300 million difference for AirTran pilots over the next decade. Also, there would have been 700-850 former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015. Now, it appears we might be heading to ZERO former AirTran pilots in the left seat on January 1st, 2015.

Great job, ALPA Group B3 EVP!

Actually Airtan pilots own SIL 2. They must accept the fact they voted for it regardless how bad it was.

 

[PCL_128]

I thought SIA #2 was sent to the pilot group with a 8-0 vote? I don't remember anything but silence from the MEC.

They voted 8-0 to send it out for a vote. It went out without an endorsement, though, which is highly irregular. And AC made it incredibly clear where he stood.

I also don't remember you saying anything at the road show I attended.

Why would I say anything at a road show? I was nothing but a rank and file pilot.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

They voted 8-0 to send it out for a vote. It went out without an endorsement, though, which is highly irregular. And AC made it incredibly clear where he stood.



Why would I say anything at a road show? I was nothing but a rank and file pilot.

He voted for it but didn't endorse it? I smoked marijuana but I didn't inhale! Yea right. There were lots of rank and file pilots at the meeting that made their feelings known. I don't remember him or you standing up. You were vocal after SIA #1 was voted down but then silent when SIA #2 was in road show. Just like those on the MEC who voted but didn't inhale. It sent a horrible message to the pilot group. What I saw was "we screwed up and now we are taking whatever we can get. And that's what we got. Just a "rank and file pilot's" point of view.

 

[PCL_128]

He voted for it but didn't endorse it? I smoked marijuana but I didn't inhale! Yea right.

You can read the resolution if you want. Sent it out for a vote, but no endorsement.

There were lots of rank and file pilots at the meeting that made their feelings known. I don't remember him or you standing up.

From what I remember, I think I only attended one road show. And I don't remember a time for commentary, just questions on the deal. I had no questions. I already knew how I was voting.

 

[FIREMAN]

He voted for it but didn't endorse it? I smoked marijuana but I didn't inhale! Yea right. There were lots of rank and file pilots at the meeting that made their feelings known. I don't remember him or you standing up. You were vocal after SIA #1 was voted down but then silent when SIA #2 was in road show. Just like those on the MEC who voted but didn't inhale. It sent a horrible message to the pilot group. What I saw was "we screwed up and now we are taking whatever we can get. And that's what we got. Just a "rank and file pilot's" point of view.

A vote to send it to the pilot group is not a vote for it.

 

[freightdogfred]

TB and FE have been doing union work since you were still getting picked last on the playground for kickball games in elementary school. Not sure where you get there was no experience on the ATN MC.

That's some funny stuff right there. Since you're a pretty big fan of TB, why don't you tell that to some US Air crews next time you pass thru KCLT. Tell them what a big fan you are, and what a great job he did over here, right before he bailed into the first train outta here, as he did in CLT. Then duck, because one of those guys might hit you in the mouth.

 

[maxblast72]

That's some funny stuff right there. Since you're a pretty big fan of TB, why don't you tell that to some US Air crews next time you pass thru KCLT. Tell them what a big fan you are, and what a great job he did over here, right before he bailed into the first train outta here, as he did in CLT. Then duck, because one of those guys might hit you in the mouth.

You (or the USAir guys) may not like TB but he brought alot of experience to the MC. He was the first of the four of us to realize we would be lucky to get DOH and the first to realize we would be living in "Condition and Restriction" land. It makes sense now and Katz told us the same thing. A lot of times when a big airline mergers with a small airline, the big airline does better with the list while the small airline builds fences around what they brought to the merger to blunt the pain of the list.

I don't blame TB or FE for leaving to head across the partition as soon as they could. I am glad TB and FE both got their 40% pay raise sooner rather than later. They are both good guys that have had rough 121 careers. What I don't understand is why CG or SS (both Captains that dislike SWA), took the first class across the partition. I thought both of those guys said it would be a pay cut. Oh well, I guess even SS likes the Koolaid now he has spent some time out in Dallas negotiating at HQ

With respect to telling USAir guys in CLT what I think of TB, I will be glad to. TB was part of the MEC that saw the inside numbers during the bankruptcy. I am sure TB was being advised by ALPA legal and ALPA EF&A. At the end of the day, he had to make a tough judgement call. It is always easy to be the tough guy and say no, but what if that decision put 5,000 pilots on the street? I have no problems with what TB did.