SWAPA/ALPA negotiate settlement

[Nindiri]

It's good that both sides are negotiating again, but it looks like arbitration is inevitable. Having already promised a staple to the SWA pilots, I'm not sure how far SWAPA can move away from that promise now without having a mutiny on their hands. I'm really surprised that SWAPA put themselves in this unfortunate position.

 

[GuppyWN]

Or, translated, ALPA said "we're just a bunch of greedy pilots who will destroy a company to get what we DESERVE and try to blame it on SWAPA."

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

Nindiri,

You can't keep saying this stuff to make it true.

Again, were has anyone stated SWAPA was demanding a staple? It's a complete lie on your part, plain and simple.

A couple of extra points..

Upon looking over arbitration awards, it appears that the strength and long term career expectations of the SW pilots will play out pretty well. The complete one-sided arguements on the SW side are very, very strong. What is AAI gonna argue? We want realitive just because we want it? and..

I have a very strong feeling Gary won't integrate a bad arbitrated SLI from the SWAPA veiwpoint. Do you really think he would ruin the culture that he and Herb have developed over 40yrs? Really?

The leverage has shifted since the AAI MEC turned down the AIP, and I think most on this side of the fence are very grateful. Thank you.

RF

 

[Nindiri]

Yes, they definitely promised a staple or near-staple. It's not exactly a secret, it's been in the news and was even discussed on the SWA pilots' own message board.

I don't understand why SWAPA made that promise. Surely they knew that SWA pilots would expect them to follow through with it.

 

[jonjuan]

So GK wants a negotiated list, and has been very open that he wants all pilots to agree and vote the list in instead of have it forced on us--- but AT ALPA is convincing you guys that arbitration is the better way.

I'm here and I understand the culture- GK wants everyone to OWN this- I don't understand what's hard to understand about that- or why AT pilots want to go a route that will affect the culture negatively.

The thought process is that if we all vote it in- we can't really have much angst about it

Obama is our president. Each time a new law/policy is discussed, our elected reps either vote for or against it. My rep, congressman, and senator speaks for me. What's so hard to understand about this? the reps are elected by us.
Besides, all we heard was the swapa folks were going to overwhelmingly vote sl9 down. It seems we are looking at the same process going forward. I think you guys are now thankful you didn't have to give Gary the "middle finger" first. Now that it has happened, you are all mouthing off that it would have passed muster and the at dudes are somehow now the bad ones.
Please reconcile these facts.

By the way, remember that it's a blending of cultures, philosophies, work ethics, attitudes, and scruples. Don't dare assume that these attributes at swa are better than those at AT.

 

[redflyer65]

I've never seen anything close to what you are talking about. Please post a link, or other source. No one, and I mean no one was expecting a staple. Just seems like you are trying to discredit SWAPA. They have more creditbility in their little finger than ALPA. I think your misguided in your anger. ALPA only looks out for themselves...not their members. Do a little research, and watch ALPA sell you down the river for their agenda.

Watch and learn.

 

[jonjuan]

ALPA only looks out for themselves

who does swapa look out for?

 

[redflyer65]

Obama is our president. Each time a new law/policy is discussed, our elected reps either vote for or against it. My rep, congressman, and senator speaks for me. What's so hard to understand about this? the reps are elected by us.
Besides, all we heard was the swapa folks were going to overwhelmingly vote sl9 down. It seems we are looking at the same process going forward. I think you guys are now thankful you didn't have to give Gary the "middle finger" first. Now that it has happened, you are all mouthing off that it would have passed muster and the at dudes are somehow now the bad ones.
Please reconcile these facts.

By the way, remember that it's a blending of cultures, philosophies, work ethics, attitudes, and scruples. Don't dare assume that these attributes at swa are better than those at AT.

Juan,

I'll help you out...no one knew whether it would pass our membership or not. You guys really helped us out with that one. Thanks for giving Gary the finger. You've now painted yourself as a militant group that want it all. Not only to Gary, but to every other SW labor group...and shareholders. Good luck in trying to get rid of that stinch of entitlement and Anti-Southwest mantra.

RF

 

[GuppyWN]

JJ and Nidi are trolls.

You're making their day.

Gup

 

[Nindiri]

No anger here, redflyer, just surprise that SWAPA would paint itself into such a corner. Clearly, they anticipated the AT pilots accepting the near-staple, and are at a loss as to what next. Not good.

Having made this rash promise, they now have an angry group of pilots demanding results. Even the near-staple in the rejected agreement was not enough to satisfy these pilots. A quick read through the threads on here reveals numerous SWA pilots complaining that the proposed agreement was not close enough to a pure staple to satisfy them and they were threatening to vote NO. That being the case, I'm not sure how SWAPA can move towards the middle without a further mutiny.

 

[Nindiri]

JJ and Nidi are trolls.

You're making their day.

Gup

Nope, not a troll. I've been very polite here when discussing the integration, and have never made it personal. On the other hand, SWA pilots on this board have called me dishonest and a moron, and even threatened me.

 

[On Your Six]

No anger here, redflyer, just surprise that SWAPA would paint itself into such a corner. Clearly, they anticipated the AT pilots accepting the near-staple, and are at a loss as to what next. Not good.

Having made this rash promise, they now have an angry group of pilots demanding results. Even the near-staple in the rejected agreement was not enough to satisfy these pilots. A quick read through the threads on here reveals numerous SWA pilots complaining that the proposed agreement was not close enough to a pure staple to satisfy them and they were threatening to vote NO. That being the case, I'm not sure how SWAPA can move towards the middle without a further mutiny.

+1. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Nope, not a troll. I've been very polite here when discussing the integration, and have never made it personal. On the other hand, SWA pilots on this board have called me dishonest and a moron, and even threatened me.

You're making things up and insisting they are the true when told they are not.

Therefore, you're either a troll or just a dumbass.

Which is it?

Gup

 

[The Victors]

It's good that both sides are negotiating again, but it looks like arbitration is inevitable. Having already promised a staple to the SWA pilots, I'm not sure how far SWAPA can move away from that promise now without having a mutiny on their hands. I'm really surprised that SWAPA put themselves in this unfortunate position.

There really isn't any "negotiating" going on anymore. The sides are meeting and some "offers" may cross the table, but nothing will happen. Swapa is done giving and the Tran boys are feeling too entitled. It will go to arbitration, period. The only remaining question is what will GK do? I have a pretty good idea it will not be what the AirTran pilots want to have happen. We shall see. To bad it's going to crash and burn when it could have been a very successful acquisition.

 

[Nindiri]

+1. Godspeed!


OYS

Thanks, OYS. Much appreciated.

 

[Nindiri]

You're making things up and insisting they are the true when told they are not.

Therefore, you're either a troll or just a dumbass.

Which is it?

Gup

There you go again, Guppy. Instead of discussing the issue rationally, you once again resort to personal insults. The list of insults and threats from SWA pilots on here continues to grow.

 

[Nindiri]

There really isn't any "negotiating" going on anymore

Are you suggesting that SWAPA is not negotiating in good faith. This would be very disappointing. Not only would it look bad to a mediator or arbitrator, but more importantly, it would speak volumes about the character of the SWAPA negotiating team.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'll be happy to discuss the facts with you but you insist on things that simply didn't happen and refuse to accept the truth as such.

You have to admit it was a clean kill shot though, right?

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

It will go to arbitration, period. The only remaining question is what will GK do? I have a pretty good idea it will not be what the AirTran pilots want to have happen.

Exactly Victors. The Trannies will refuse to believe that Gary will do what he needs to protect his (and Herb's) company. The culture will stay intact. AAI has already basically burned the lottery ticket they were so generously given. They are really in a no-win situation. Demanding more seniority with very little return for turning down the AIP, and the ultimate outcome of a windown of AAI.

And for Juan,

ALPA has lead you down a rabbit hole. There won't be a good outcome unfortunately.

RF

 

[Nindiri]

I'm glad you're willing to discuss it, Guppy, but you need to leave the name-calling to the children.

So what is the status now for SWAPA? Do you think that the SWA pilots will allow them to move off their earlier promise and negotiate something closer to a fair integration? Some of the more senior SWA pilots I've talked with don't seem to think so, and have indicated a certain amount of irritation at SC for turning the whole thing ugly.