All Eagle pilots getting numbers at AA?

[Nevets]

Incredible! Great job to APA American and ALPA Eagle to work this out.

Curious, what makes you say that APA had anything to do with this?

ASA is already working on something similar.

What exactly is ASA working on?

 

[Flyer1015]

Curious, what makes you say that APA had anything to do with this?

Nothing. I should have said APA or AMR management. I don't know who had their hand in it. But I do know that Delta's MEC was staunchly against any flowthroughs, and barely let XJ keep their 100 or so numbers. So if APA is anything like DALPA when it comes to views on flowthroughs...

 

[JoeMerchant]

APA had nothing to do with it...

 

[DGdaPilot]

Incredible! Great job to APA American and ALPA Eagle to work this out.

I would hope that Delta Connection carriers could be afforded an opportunity like this, but no way. Now I regret not going to Eagle in 2007. The double-breasted egotistical union leaders at Delta refuse any flowthrough agreements, barely giving XJ the 100 flows and Compass only until Summer 2010 hires.

The APA had nothing to do with this deal. It was done by Eagle ALPA, AA, and AE.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Last point, didn't you eagle pilots learn your lesson yet? You signed that 16 year crap contract just to get flow through and the flow through turned out to be the worst part of the contract when AA displaced all your captains after 911. You guys are the poster airline of why flow through is BAD and you go out and do this...

Shows how little you know.

This new deal has no flowback provision. If/when you flow, your employment at Eagle is terminated.

The original Letter 3 was mostly negotiated by APA and AA, even though Eagle and ALPA were also parties it. This new deal is lightyears beyond Letter 3/Supp. W. in terms of scope and language.

 

[glasspilot]

Shows how little I know? Which part you my post that you quoted is wrong? I think I was factually correct on every point.

 

[DGdaPilot]

You talked about 911 displacing captains, which was a direct result of the previous flow back provision of Letter 3/Supp. W. That provision no longer exists.

Also, the 16 year contract was not signed solely on a flow program. It was mainly to stop the whipsaw of the 4 Eagles, which it successfully stopped.

Stick to what you know, son.

 

[Nevets]

Nothing. I should have said APA or AMR management. I don't know who had their hand in it. But I do know that Delta's MEC was staunchly against any flowthroughs, and barely let XJ keep their 100 or so numbers. So if APA is anything like DALPA when it comes to views on flowthroughs...

The reason I ask is because it seems to me that these pilots will be new hire pilots just like any other pilot off the street (as opposed to true flowthroughs). I don't think APA has to be consulted by AMR to negotiate who they hire "off the street" if you will. It's just like XJT having an MOU with All ATPs to interview/hire their pilots.

 

[johnsonrod]

Doubt Comair would ever get flow-rights at Delta after the stunt their senior guys pulled (Lawson?) right after 9/11. They required Delta furloughees to resign their seniority numbers in order to get junior RJ slots. Obviously, nobody took them up on it (or very, very few). This happened even though Comair was a Delta Connection carrier - pretty pathetic when pilots were in serious need after 9/11.

Sorry, guilt by association. From what I hear, many of the remaining Delta pilots were clearly not happy and they have long-term memories... So, don't expect it at Delta if you are a Comair pilot.

 

[brokedash]

This now puts Eagle in business for themselves. They have the highest operating costs in the business.

This is bad news. This settlement of the grievance was a move to go forward. I wonder from an Eagle pilots point of view if there is any real value with the opportunity presented with the settlement.

This business can be just awful.

AA retaining ownership of Eagle's fleet, so as a seperate company they will have to bid to retain the flying. This means cost structure is going to have to come in line with other competing regionals. Eagle also will have the ability to bid for business from other majors current regional feed which could open them up to operating larger aircraft, that might offset some of the cost.

Also I read somewhere today that Eagle has two certificates and could use one to operate larger aircraft and retained AA flying on the other. Can anyone cofirm or clarify this?

 

[DGdaPilot]

AA retaining ownership of Eagle's fleet, so as a seperate company they will have to bid to retain the flying. This means cost structure is going to have to come in line with other competing regionals. Eagle also will have the ability to bid for business from other majors current regional feed which could open them up to operating larger aircraft, that might offset some of the cost.

Also I read somewhere today that Eagle has two certificates and could use one to operate larger aircraft and retained AA flying on the other. Can anyone cofirm or clarify this?

That is correct. We own and operate our jets on the MQ certificate and our ATRs on the NA certificate.

 

[glasspilot]

You talked about 911 displacing captains, which was a direct result of the previous flow back provision of Letter 3/Supp. W. That provision no longer exists.

Also, the 16 year contract was not signed solely on a flow program. It was mainly to stop the whipsaw of the 4 Eagles, which it successfully stopped.

Stick to what you know, son.

Ah, there it is. The FI establishment of male dominance. Calling me "son" somehow elevates you into a position of authority. If you were a monkey you'd show your red butt to impress, but here you use inappropriate use of social status, claiming the dominate role for yourself with zero grounds to do so.

Okay "Dad". My point remains flow through is like welfare and any pilot would be way better off to simply apply themselves and, well, apply.

 

[rod farva]

So much for any American hiring for the next 5-10 years. Good luck to the 300-hour co-pilot in the MD-80 schoolhouse. Unbelieveable. What a joke.

 

[flyboyike]

I am pretty sure they would net a loss on that type of transaction. At least their theory for the past 10 years or so has been the opposite. If the labor cost (or any cost for that matter)at a certain regional gets too high, then they will just move the flying to another younger one and destroy the original. They have shown they don't have any problems doing that.

You're right in that "they have no problem doing that", but the other side of that issue is that "they" can only do that so many times. With all these mergers and buyouts the number of regionals will continue to decrease, thus limiting "their" options of continuous shuffling of flying.

My hunch (only a hunch) at the moment is that ALPA national is operating on the premise that regional flying as we know it today will disappear in the next decade just because there will be nobody left to do it, so all this will be a moot point sooner than we think.

 

[glasspilot]

jealous much? so i guess waiting on an upgrade to captain is a free hand out as well?

Yes, that's exactly right. Waiting for upgrade is a hand out. Also, waiting for a paycheck is a hand out. When you earn something that's called a hand out.


Oh wait, that's stupid. Those things were earned so, duh, by definition it's not a hand out.

Giving you a job at a major airline because you got hired 20 years ago at some regional with 600 hours...would that be earned or handed out? If it's earned then why don't all the 20 year pilots at other regionals get the job? You tell me.


Look, I'm talking to the non-lazy people here who have desire and motivation in life and want to excel. Don't wait for your number to move forward. Leap frog all the lazy people who are going to sit back and wait for what they think is owed them. The numbers are on your side. The Majority of pilots going to AA will still be off the street. Use that to your advantage and let all those who think flow through is great languish in their own laziness and self pity.

Chjack, to answer your question...no, I'm not at all jealous.