Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[Max Powers]

Max,

I can hear you. You can type all day, but you're never going to convince me that AAI and SWA are or where in the same league. The growth vs. replacement argument is a stretch, at best. I'm a pretty simple guy so I'll stick to my simple analogies. Said it before and I'll say it again; SWA and AAI is apples to citrus. I'm fully aware of the hand I've been dealt and I'm very comfortable with my prospects. Thanks.

Your welcome....and you are correct it is apples to citrus. At least that we can agree to.:beer:

 

[Ty Webb]

If you want to get technical, it's "corndogs to citrus".

 

[RLAblows]

I'm not saying the new guys are optimistic... We as in those on the list as of September. I feel very confident in our position, our arguments, our team, our union, and our management.

Didn't the "new" guys get the call to come to work because of the announcement in September?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Lear, I won't say we are superior. I will, however, remind our readers of the HUNDREDS of AirTran pilots who either applied and weren't qualified, or interviewed unsuccessfully for a job with SWA.

In fact Lear, for conversations sake please remind me how many times you interviewed at SWA? Or for that matter, how about the members of your Merger Committee?

Apples to apples??? Sure, keep telling yourself that.

And, the readers should be reminded that with 1700 pilots, if HUNDREDS applied, that means over a THOUSAND did not, using your figures.

 

[Lear70]

No, not true, SWA considers Airtran inferior, not the pilots, you guys are held in high esteem, don't mix the two even though you work there.

Fair enough. :beer:

What are SWA pilots afraid of? Not "not getting something", they are afraid of losing what they have. Period. Let me be clear, if you threaten that, what we have, you will be gone.

I understand that some of your mid-level and junior F/O's are worried about slowing their upgrade progression. The fact is, no matter HOW you slice an SLI, without stapling the vast majority of our F/O list (which most reasonable people understand just isnt going to happen), that slower upgrades are just a fact of life. I just don't see the plug being pulled on a multi-BILLION dollar deal (long term outlook) for a few years additional upgrade time for a few hundred pilots.

I have flown with some new FO's hoping for an award that favors AAI as well. They know they are at the bottom....unless we don't integrate.

I've been saying that for a few months now after watching Flightinfo. I suspect a few people's goal is to try to push this thing to arbitration then scream as loudly as possible, hoping it "kills the deal". I think it's misguided, but it's a free country...

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Good luck to all.

 

[PCL_128]

Who's fearing arbitration? Gary's got the keys to integrating the list if he wants to..

Yes, and he already turned the key when he signed the Process Agreement. You guys are clinging to false hope. The integration is happening. Live with it.

In fact Lear, for conversations sake please remind me how many times you interviewed at SWA? Or for that matter, how about the members of your Merger Committee?

I don't think any of our MC members have ever interviewed at SWA.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Keep your day job.

It says "the letters of agreement delineated in Sec II(d) shall be null and void" ..... Section II(d) is null and void. I dont want to put it in CAPS because that would be cruel.

The next section is Sec III .... Mediation. Then Arbitration.

Keep up the adult literacy classes. You'll get there.

The list is not the biggest item on the table for the AirTran pilots in my opinion. ALPA can be at the table when longevity, years of required probation, 717 pay rates, fence agreements, equipment locks, and all of the other biggies if there is a negotiated deal. Any of these items negotiated with ALPA during SLI negotiations will be null and void if this goes to arbitration.

If this goes to arbitration, SWAPA and SWA will negotiate all of these items for the AirTran pilots. Gary Kelly has pledged to protect his pilots and I expect that is exactly what he will do.

A negotiated deal is the only way to go for AirTran guys in my opinion.

 

[Lonestar]

Is it starting to make sense yet dickO?

 

[redflyer65]

Yes, and he already turned the key when he signed the Process Agreement. You guys are clinging to false hope. The integration is happening. Live with it.

And what happens if the Process Agreement goes away? Who holds the keys then?

There's absolutely NO way Gary is gonna let this ruin his (and Herb's) legacy at this company.

RF

 

[dicko]

If this goes to arbitration, SWAPA and SWA will negotiate all of these items for the AirTran pilots. Gary Kelly has pledged to protect his pilots and I expect that is exactly what he will do.

A negotiated deal is the only way to go for AirTran guys in my opinion.

Hilarious stuff Bill,

You're saying that SWAPA will negotiate a different contract for AirTran pilots whilst they are on the same seniority list ? If they don't represent us they can't negotiate our contract. If they do represent us we will have the same contract. Do you understand the Duty of Fair Representation (DFR) ?

You're not thinking this through Bill. The threats are getting wilder by the minute.

 

[Ty Webb]

If this goes to arbitration, SWAPA and SWA will negotiate all of these items for the AirTran pilots. .

If SWAPA is representing AirTran pilots at that point, they will be careful to do it fairly . . . No union wants to have to deal with a Duty of Fair Representation claim, especially on top of everything else. That's a recipe for USAirways II

A negotiated deal is the only way to go for AirTran guys in my opinion.

If the rest of SWA pilots feel like the vocal FO's on this board, that doesn't seem very likely right now . . . . Of course, the wildcard will be the SWA Captains, who will realize that a negotiated deal is the best deal for them; if it goes to Arbitration, they have more to lose in arbitration than the FO's.

 

[Lonestar]

Guy's, what Bill is saying is plainly written in the Four Party Process Agreement (that your MC signed):

Section II
(d) In the event that an integrated seniority list is reached through negotiations, the
following shall apply:
(i) SWAPA and ALPA will each designate members of their respective
Negotiating Committees to comprise an Implementation Work Group,
whose sole responsibilities will be to negotiate an implementation
schedule with the Companies to include:
a. Adjustment of the AirTran-ALPA CBA to reflect the
compensation and benefits of the SWAPA CBA;
b. Application of the SWAPA CBA to AirTran pilots;
c. B717 rates of pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA
CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots; and
d. International pay and work rules to be applied under the SWAPA
CBA to Southwest and AirTran pilots.
(ii) Members of the Implementation Work Group from SWAPA shall serve
only as consultants during discussions on the modification of the
AirTran-ALPA CBA, and members of the Implementation Work Group
from ALPA shall serve only as consultants during discussions on the
modification of the SWAPA CBA.
(iii) Compensation, as defined in Section 4.C of the SWAPA CBA [and other
economic terms e.g. Healthcare coverage, 401k, Vacation and Sick Leave
accrual] shall be made applicable to AirTran pilots through the ALPA
Letter of Agreement process as negotiated with the Companies by the
Implementation Work Group.
(iv) Any negotiated seniority list will include both the seniority list
implementation schedule and letter of agreement delineated in II.d.(i-iii).
(v) AirTran pilots will continue to work under their existing CBA in
accordance with the implementation schedule negotiated by the
Implementation Work Group, and after which time they will be covered​

by the SWAPA CBA.

You (ALPA...because you're not SWAPA) won't get a seat at the table when these things are hashed out unless we get a NEGOTIATED list. Like I said before, If an SLI isn't NEGOTIATED... all bets are off.

 

[Bill Nelson]

If SWAPA is representing AirTran pilots at that point, they will be careful to do it fairly

I would agree with that. SWAPA is always careful not to put the association in harms way. The problem for you is that these items will be negotiated prior to SWAPA representing AirTran pilots and before any list is implemented thus there will be no DFR issues. That is what I have been told anyway.

The only sure deal is a negotiated one. If this goes to arbitration I would guess the risks are larger on the AT side of the fence. Just my guess. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[texman]

Didn't the "new" guys get the call to come to work because of the announcement in September?

Nope. Had nothing to do with it. More vacations. Group is becoming SR.

 

[texman]

And, the readers should be reminded that with 1700 pilots, if HUNDREDS applied, that means over a THOUSAND did not, using your figures.

It was about 700, captians included.