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SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

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hey what have i been saying for years as a merger solution?

STEEL CAGE MATCH !!!!

I suggested this for the 2000-2001 aaa/ual fiasco and again for our current mess also mentioned it for MDA/Rep and DAL/NWA but nobody seems to listen.

I think it would be great.

1. Both pilot groups pick a neutral area. In this case MEM (about half was between ATL and DAL), the pilots of Fedex could referee.

2. Build a giant steel cage on the ramp

3. put all pilots involved from both lists in cage

4. Ring giant bell and unleash free for all knock out fest

5. first pilot down/taps out/runs gets the last position on the list and the next gets the second to last and on and on till the last pilot standing. Last pilot standing gets seniority number one.

Pretty straight forward if you ask me.

Too many hurt pilots.

Here is simple:

Think Amazing Race...

...All of us line up outside Headquarters in Dallas. You have to finish a bottle of Turkey. 3...2...1...Bang! All 8,000 of us race by foot to the AirTran crew room in ATL. You WANT seniority, you'll get seniority. Blood, sweat, and tears.
 
I'd venture to guess the reactions for the majority of FO's at SWA and the majority of FO's at AT were polar opposites. The main reason for this are career expectations. I am a 3.5ish yr FO at SW. I am on track to make $145K this year. This is average for my sonority. I will get a $10.00/trip increase for next year so I should make around 155-160K. I am a commuter so I do not make the extra $ like the guys who live in base. We have FO's making over 200K and CA's making over 400K, but again I am talking averages. Based on my career expectation snapshot yesterday I planned to upgrade in about 8-10 yrs (in a down economy and slow to no growth mode). As a topped out FO I plan to make around 180K/yr. When I upgrade to CA it will be 275K/yr. At SW we get a minimum of 15 days off per month and I almost never have less than 17. I know the future can change at any moment but this is an honest future expectation. Based on pay and benefits of AT as posted on APC and posts from AT pilots in the past, there is no gain for me as a SW pilot in terms of pay, contract, an benifits. Now, I didn't say there was no benefit at all. There will be more destinations, and eliminate a competitor. I also think it will be good for SW if done properly. There are many great pilots over there as well who I would enjoy working with.
But the main point I want to make is for AT pilots to understand my point of view. I am not in their shoes but I know enough about their situation and have talked to many AT pilots to get an idea. So if you see some SW guys talking about "fair and equitable", this is where we are coming from.
 
I'd venture to guess the reactions for the majority of FO's at SWA and the majority of FO's at AT were polar opposites. The main reason for this are career expectations. I am a 3.5ish yr FO at SW. I am on track to make $145K this year. This is average for my sonority. I will get a $10.00/trip increase for next year so I should make around 155-160K. I am a commuter so I do not make the extra $ like the guys who live in base. We have FO's making over 200K and CA's making over 400K, but again I am talking averages. Based on my career expectation snapshot yesterday I planned to upgrade in about 8-10 yrs (in a down economy and slow to no growth mode). As a topped out FO I plan to make around 180K/yr. When I upgrade to CA it will be 275K/yr. At SW we get a minimum of 15 days off per month and I almost never have less than 17. I know the future can change at any moment but this is an honest future expectation. Based on pay and benefits of AT as posted on APC and posts from AT pilots in the past, there is no gain for me as a SW pilot in terms of pay, contract, an benifits. Now, I didn't say there was no benefit at all. There will be more destinations, and eliminate a competitor. I also think it will be good for SW if done properly. There are many great pilots over there as well who I would enjoy working with.
But the main point I want to make is for AT pilots to understand my point of view. I am not in their shoes but I know enough about their situation and have talked to many AT pilots to get an idea. So if you see some SW guys talking about "fair and equitable", this is where we are coming from.

You make some excellent points, which leads me to believe that SLI will go to arbitration to preclude any litigation.
 
I think it would be counter-productive to start such a discussion here as it will inevitably degrade into a pointless food fight. I would suggest all SW and AT pilots save those keystrokes for emails to your union reps....that's where it may actually have some benefit.

This will ultimately be decided by an arbitrator....and that's okay. It's just business.


THANK YOU. Well said. Short, to the point and accurate.
 
Anybody remember what happened to Midwest pilots after Republic came in?
Same thing here except SWA is Republic. I'd take what you can get or it might get well....

SWA will fill the gates with whoever they want and do what they want. Simple as that.
 
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A couple of questions.... How many ATA pilots are currently flying at SWA? How much longer is SWA keeping the -500s? Fact sheets said little or no overlap-- what about BWI?
 
Anybody remember what happened to Midwest pilots after Republic came in?
Same thing here except SWA is Republic. I'd take what you can get or it might get well....

SWA will fill the gates with whoever they want and do what they want. Simple as that.

One thing AirTran and Southwest have in common, all you need is a High School diploma to apply.


p.s. do you guys wear the same leather jackets as ASA? Perrone, I think?
 
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What about giving Airtran people pay at Southwest's rates if it means a raise, and they keep their seniority for bidding purposes only in ATL, MCO, and MKE? (Fence off Southwest's domiciles?)

Everybody wins.
 
Moderator hat on:

The next person to bring up UAir/AWA goes to the penalty box for 3 days.

Obviously we don't want to go down that road and what has already been said about it in this thread is enough for that subject.

/mod

Moderator hat off:

The AirTran MEC has instructed pilots NOT to discuss this either on our internal board or on any external board, as discussions like that HAVE been known to come up in arbitration.

If you don't want what you say used against you, Shut It.

That said, the fun banter is amusing. I'd agree with the bench 225 max reps thing except I can't get over 200 since my shoulder injury, saw doc last week, he said I probably won't *ever* get much over 200... Guess I'll be stuck in the middle of the seniority list. ;) lol
 
Good news

What about giving Airtran people pay at Southwest's rates if it means a raise, and they keep their seniority for bidding purposes only in ATL, MCO, and MKE? (Fence off Southwest's domiciles?)

Everybody wins.

The good news is if the 717 pays the same, then the whole company will be at one pay rate, which really makes the SLI about who is captain, who is FO and where. This has got to be much easier to figure out than trying to combine different catagories/types of flying like at DAL/NWA. Also, the NWA pilots received much bigger raises than the DAL guys in the new prebargained joint contract, but that didn't seem to matter much in the SLI, for better or worse.
LUV
 
What about integrating the list by looking at the pre-merger pay rates and filtering down from the top, basically it would put all the SW captains at the top of the list then the AT captains, then the SW FO's, then the AT FO's. After list integration everyone moves to the SW pay scale. A senior AT captain would lose a ton of seniority but if QOL was more important he could move to a FO position and make similar dollars. Or the same captain could be junior but increase his hourly pay by $53 at the top end of the pay scale.
 
What about coming up with a combined list and then if you don't like it, then the other side does the flying with your a$$ furloghed and then..... the company hires to fill the empty seats. Sounds great.
 
What about integrating the list by looking at the pre-merger pay rates and filtering down from the top, basically it would put all the SW captains at the top of the list then the AT captains, then the SW FO's, then the AT FO's. After list integration everyone moves to the SW pay scale. A senior AT captain would lose a ton of seniority but if QOL was more important he could move to a FO position and make similar dollars. Or the same captain could be junior but increase his hourly pay by $53 at the top end of the pay scale.

Since it is illegal to staple (see Bond/McCaskill), I am sure arbitrators will be involved, because we all know SWA wants the merger done. It's out in the public now, no way turning back. Kelly didn't have time to ask the SWA pilots if they approved. So, we all know arbitrators will decide it, and they will look at the past couple mergers as precedence.

But other than all of that, I think ALL OF YOU are FANTASTIC people, and I bet you will LOVE each other and do GREAT together. I hope you all have a great tomorrow, and if you have a second, make sure you do something nice for someone, like standing up on the bus to allow a granny to sit in your seat. Bye now!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
how about we take the bottom FO from each side, put them in a room and tell them the oxygen runs out in 12 hours, you get to come out when you give us a list.
 
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If this nightmare goes through I'm going to want my 8500 bucks for the type rating back. I hate to say this, but I'm afraid the only ones who aren't going to get "fair and equitable" treatment are the SWA F/O's. Airtran folks are getting a HUGE windfall simply by coming to work here. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for you, I just hate to see it come at my expense.

BTW: AWA/US AIR, AWA/US AIR, AWA/US AIR. Sorry, mod I had to do it. Sort of like Steve McQueen going to the cooler in "The Great Escape". See y'all in 3 days.
 

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