SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[Fubijaakr]

As someone with no dog in the fight, here's the most fair and equitable way to integrate these two lists:

1. No bump, no flush. You hold your current base seat position until YOU bid out of it.

Since straight ratio would be a HUGE windfall for Air Tran guys, a better method of SLI would combine DoH and ratio. (Disclaimer: I know DoH isn't a component of either ALPA merger/frag or Bond/McCaskill, but hear me out.)

Air Tran's #1 Capt. has a 1993 hire date. So ALL SWA pilots hired prior to 1993 would be placed on the list. After that the first AAI pilot. Then, since there are 3.5 SWA pilots for every AAI pilot, 3 SWA pilots are listed. Then the next AAI pilot. Then 4 SWA pilots, an AAI pilot, 3 SWA pilots and on down until the list is sorted.

It would be a windfall for ANY AAI pilot to be slotted before a 1993 SWA hire. And given the no bump/no flush all current AAI Captains would maintain their left seat.

Granted, all the AAI pilots would get a salary windfall, but SLI deals with SENIORITY windfalls not monetary ones. To suggest that a bump in pay equates with sending AAI guys to the bottom of the list is a non-starter.

Of course you'd have to sort the list and adjust the ratio if there is a seniority bulge anywhere along the line.

 

[waveflyer]

Another point brought up on another forum, is relative qualifications to getting hired at each airline. Southwest's requirements are far more stingent, between being type rated and having minimum hours (turbine PIC). Can't deny that a job at SWA is a higher value and harder to achieve.

This is how Airways started - please stop-

 

[Sensei]

You all are leaving out one very important benefit for us--better looking flight attendants! (female, that is) I'd love to stay and chat but I have to have a new (and larger) cod piece added to my custom tailored, Canyon Blue and Orange banana hammock.

 

[carl p]

Originally Posted by Flycatcher99 [/URL]
[I]"Another point brought up on another forum, is relative qualifications to getting hired at each airline. Southwest's requirements are far more stingent, between being type rated and having minimum hours (turbine PIC). Can't deny that a job at SWA is a higher value and harder to achieve."[/I]


[QUOTE="Ty Webb, post: 2053967, member: 1212"]This is the stupidest attempt at justification I have seen so far.

I have 6 years in the left seat of a 737 and a degree in Aviation Management. You apparently had Beech 1900 PIC time and an over-inflated sense of self-worth . . . . . We both met SWA's requirements. What's your point?[/QUOTE]

Hey me too, I've got 7,800 hrs PIC between the 727, 737, and DC-9. I'm obviously more qualified than him...I like the way he thinks LOL! C'mon dude, your getting real silly now. Just take a deep breath and count to 10.

 

[Lear70]

Oh! Oh! Seniority integration by PIC Turbine time PRIOR to being hired by SWA or AirTran!

COUNT ME IN!!! LOL (have to agree with Ty, that was a pretty ignorant post right there, kemosabe).

Fubi, not bad,,, not bad at all. Our senior CA's would scream but as long as the fence for CA was of a LONG duration (at least 5 years if not longer), they should be fine.

Sensei... not right... not right at all. LOLOL

 

[Ty Webb]

Fubi, not bad,,, not bad at all. Our senior CA's would scream but as long as the fence for CA was of a LONG duration (at least 5 years if not longer), they should be fine.

Yepper

 

[vetrider]

What's stringent about a 737 type? Whoopee, my grandma has one. It seems as whatever airline is the cats meow of the moment always has that same hangup about the 'interview' and qualifications.

"Oh, what's the matter, couldn't pass the interview" blathered with appropriate pomposity.

 

[scoreboardII]

but SLI deals with SENIORITY windfalls not monetary ones. To suggest that a bump in pay equates with sending AAI guys to the bottom of the list is a non-starter. .

Your info is incorrect on numerous fronts:

RLA and A/M LPP states;

labor organizations must complete
before they can change the status quo, as well as the methods for resolving both “minor” and
“major” disputes over collective bargaining agreements.

That means, any issue, not just seniority, so pay is a major issue to be dealt with under RLA and A/M does reference seniority. This means it is acceptable and required to consider compensation under RLA. and then to fairly intigrate seniority, NOT exclude pay and only focus on seniority.

 

[Flycatcher99]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but that was "delta" arrogant there!! Jeez man get over yourself!

Wow, I really pushed some buttons with my comment. Look, it's not arrogant at all. I'm stating plain facts. SWA requires a 737 type rating and 1000 hours turbine PIC. AAI does not require either. Thus, the requirements to get a job at SWA are tougher, simple as that.

And for all the little smackdowns I'm getting on my total time, you guys don't really have the foggiest clue. I haven't been on this board since before I got hired at SWA seven years ago, and thus I haven't updated my total since then. Not that it matters. The point I was trying to make isn't how qualified each of us is at this time (SWA or AT pilots), but rather that SWA was arguably a tougher job to get when everyone was hiring. By that token (plus by common sense), it is a plain fact that many Air Tran fellows wanted/want to get on at SWA, not so much the converse.

You can scream and cry at me all you want, but those are the facts.

 

[Flycatcher99]

AYFKM! I personally know 3 of your capts. hired in the late 90s pre 9/11 (while all legacies were hiring) that WOULD NOT even been invited to an interview at any legacy(barely graduated high school). Swa did not have the luxury at that time to be overly picky. Post 9/11 as they were the only game in town they could be. But don't try to pull the cream of the crop crap here. For those of us that have been around a while, sw was somewhere between a good regional and a legacy. A fun place to work, but always behind in pay and benefits. You are at the top now by default (ch 11) not by anything swapa did.

Hm, where do I start?

First, who is comparing SWA with a legacy? I never did. I'm only comparing SWA with Air Tran. I stand by my comparison. If you think that Air Tran was ever a more (or even equally) desirable job than SWA, I have to ask, what color is the sky in your world?

Second, I never said SW pilots were the "cream of the crop". Some of them are, some aren't, just like at every other airline. I was only comparing ease of hire, and, again, if you think that it was just as easy to be hired at SWA as it was at Air Tran, you're smoking something besides cigs.

Third, your analysis of SWA's pay and position relative to legacies bears some truth. Many of the other airlines fell below our pay and benefits. But to say that our comparative position is of no credit to SWAPA is not accurate. Both SWAPA's negotiations and our good relations with management have resulted in such a strong company and such financial health, that SWA was able to sustain resilience in the midst of industry scalebacks and recession. So yes, our top pay is partly due to others pulling back, but it's also due to our strength in being able not only to be stable financially, but even get a pay raise in the middle of this recession.