Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[Scope out RJ's]

JJ,

I'm looking at ck# 17846 from Seham's law firm. Have any idea why he's writing checks concerning the lawsuit against the Cactus 18?

Since you are in the know, care to explain??

He can't.....He's too busy working his 2nd job as a fry chef. You see that stellar 190 pay those eastholes negotiated have them paid less than, well, a mesa pilot.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Dizel8]

"Seniority dispute ends at US Airways"

"Just as soon as those darn west pilots bow to our will and accept DOH as the gold standard!"

 

[Cowboy75]

Scope and Dizel, I think my opponent is busy getting tossed around in the Seham/Cleary spin machine. Please leave her alone.

She's sensitive and has feelings. :laugh:

 

[Cowboy75]

Hey there Nic, have ya noticed we are on the offense and through playing games with Usapians??

It's going to get interesting. You better start saving your snapbacks!!!

 

[vetrider]

JLJ is being kind of quiet lately. As soon as the next down turn hits, we'll be out of money again, begging, hustling and everyting else to scrounge up a buck.

 

[Cowboy75]

JLJ is being kind of quiet lately.

Shhh. Don't disturb her, she's in bed with Cleary and Sheham.

 

[vetrider]

It won't be long, the meds will wear off, again...

 

[Cowboy75]

It won't be long, the meds will wear off, again...

I wonder if they don't test for that, one of our furloughed pilots might have their job back.

 

[St. Nic]

Who is JLJ? You guys are real men of genius

 

[flyboyike]

As someone who is a complete outsider to the US Airways system, I have a couple of general questions about this whole mess:

1. What is the expected end game here for either side? It sounds to me like the East wants straight DOH while the West wants Nicolau (with which I admit I'm not real familiar). It seems like neither one has much of a chance of happening in its pure form without years and years of litigation, so at what point short of either one of those two scenarios will one or both sides rest?

2. Who continues to benefit while this dispute continues? Aside from the lawyers (who, in my experience, manage to get rich no matter what), it seems to me the management comes out the big winner by continuing to pay substandard rates and administer substandard work rules, since neither the West nor the East seem to have time to address them.

3. If what I posit in #2 is correct (I said if), at what point does the management become a bigger enemy than each other? Is it never? Is it when the majority of pre-merger crewmembers retire?

I genuinely want to be educated on this matter, because I believe mergers will only continue and get bigger and I wouldn't want to see my pilot group in this kind of a bind (not that I could personally prevent it, but still...)

 

[Cowboy75]

Who is JLJ? You guys are real men of genius

PINHEAD (St. Nic)

A simple fellow, a fool; one who cannot handle the most mundane tasks due to lack of common sense and intelligence.

 

[Cowboy75]

I genuinely want to be educated on this matter, because I believe mergers will only continue and get bigger and I wouldn't want to see my pilot group in this kind of a bind (not that I could personally prevent it, but still...)

I could write pages on this subject but it boils down to this.

In a merger, there is a process to follow. You better hope the group on the opposite side of the table has the integrity to abide by a process. If not, you will find yourself in a legal battle.

I hope you don't find yourself in our situation. Once again, it all boils down to integrity or lack of it.


Good luck!

 

[TWA Dude]

1. What is the expected end game here for either side?

A combined operation.

It sounds to me like the East wants straight DOH while the West wants Nicolau (with which I admit I'm not real familiar).

To be precise the East wants a DOH list with some kind of LOS correction plus some fences. Suffice it to say it favors the East at the West's expense. As for the Nic list, the vast majority of rational non-Easties consider it fair to both sides.

It seems like neither one has much of a chance of happening in its pure form without years and years of litigation, so at what point short of either one of those two scenarios will one or both sides rest?

When the company with finality says they won't negotiate a list other than the Nic. Could happen fairly soon.

2. Who continues to benefit while this dispute continues?

You already know the answer: the company, of course.

3. If what I posit in #2 is correct (I said if), at what point does the management become a bigger enemy than each other? Is it never? Is it when the majority of pre-merger crewmembers retire?

The latter is probably closest.

I genuinely want to be educated on this matter, because I believe mergers will only continue and get bigger and I wouldn't want to see my pilot group in this kind of a bind (not that I could personally prevent it, but still...)

NW/DL have already cracked the code. Get a combined contract first that states the arbitrated list will go into effect immediately. Expect UA/CO to go down similarly. Hopefully no other airline will be able to get away with the kind of treachery the East has -- so far.

 

[flyboyike]

When the company with finality says they won't negotiate a list other than the Nic. Could happen fairly soon.

So, the management has had the ability to stop this all along? I suppose, it's not really in their interest to stop it, so why would they, soon or not soon?

 

[TWA Dude]

Initially, running separate ops played havoc with the company's desired 'synergies' a merger produces. When gas prices shot up it realized the money saved from not having a new contract was well worth it. At this point it's hard to tell what's really motivating it. Could be a potential merger or something else.

Indeed, the company could've said back in 2008 when USAPA passed their wet-dream list across the negotiating table that the Nic was the list. Instead, they strung USAPA along by saying seniority is, in fact, negotiable. Technically they're correct as long as you ignore the DFR suit threat. The company filing suit for a declaratory judgment showed they do now fear an injunction from a suit filed by the West.

 

[doh]

And still neither Nic nor MCDU have explained why the representatives won't meet with those they represent. I'm still waiting for either of you to give me an answer.

 

[Guppiedriver]

To be precise the East wants a DOH list with some kind of LOS correction plus some fences. Suffice it to say it favors the East at the West's expense. As for the Nic list, the vast majority of rational non-Easties consider it fair to both sides.

Almost correct. The easties did NOT adjust their dream list for LOS at all.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Scope and Dizel, I think my opponent is busy getting tossed around in the Seham/Cleary spin machine. Please leave her alone.

She's sensitive and has feelings. :laugh:

Getting tossed.....Um yup, but I'm thinking that salad and MCDU are probably in with that!:laugh:

 

[doh]

Bumping for an answer Nickie

 

[Cowboy75]

Source: Azcentral

USAPA/US Airways
Speaking of the dysfunctional bunch over at US Airways -- the US Airways pilots -- the USAPA follies continue.

The union's latest propaganda effort, while it waits to hear the outcome of the airline's request for a declaratory judgment from an Arizona court, took place this week in Philadelphia, where about 150 US Airways pilots picketed the company.
Included in that group was the President of USAPA, Mike Cleary.

I find the union's timing for its picketing event telling for more than one reason. One -- they managed to get their friendly journalist, Ted Reed at TheStreet.com to write what amounted to not much more than a propaganda piece in which the point was hammered home that the company is the one that has been stalling on a new contract.

Right.

No, wrong.

The company has essentially been sitting on its hands while the braintrust (and yes, I do use that term very loosely) at the new union fights the pilots who used to work at America West over a seniority arbitration award that was delivered under the rules of the group's previous union, the Air Line Pilots Association.

As we all know, the US Airways East pilots didn't "like" the seniority award, and so, now, for almost five years, both pilot groups have suffered from not being able to renegotiate a new contract -- a result of the East pilots decertifying ALPA and setting up their own "independent" union.

The airline has said from the beginning that it will not negotiate and that it cannot negotiate a contract with the group until the issue of seniority is resolved between the two pilot groups.

Secondly, the timing of the picketing was even more ironic, especially given Cleary's comments to Reed, because the picketing in Philadelphia took place exactly on the same day that union leaders from all the employee groups at the airline were, in fact, scheduled to meet with management.

Cleary told Reed in the article, "US Airways has stalled negotiations so that employees are mired in bankruptcy-era contracts that were negotiated seven years ago. They have found excuse after excuse not to come to the table."

Really.

We read a letter that was forwarded to us by a union representative of another US Airways employee group, and it is clear that while telling TheStreet.com that the company has been "stalling negotiations," representatives of USAPA have also been the only union representatives not to meet with management on a regular basis as part of the airline's Labor Committee efforts that bring all union leaders together with management on a regular basis.

According to the letter we read, which appeared to be sent from US Airways CEO Doug Parker to Cleary, Cleary has missed the last two Labor Committee meetings. And he missed the meeting last week. Why? Because he was picketing.

As Parker explained in the letter, "The committee meets four-five times a year as a standing committee of the US Airways Board. I attend every meeting as do two other Board members and each union is represented by their leadership. We report on the discussion to the full Board meeting the next day."

As Parker noted in his letter, "I have found the Labor Committee to be helpful to our union-management relations and am glad we established it. It ensures we are all talking to each other regularly and the Board is apprised of our unions’ concerns. Of course, the process only works to the extent the union leaders participate. Fortunately, each of the union leaders other than USAPA’s has been great about attendance and participation. However, you personally have attended only one committee meeting since you’ve been USAPA’s President and, as we discussed previously, I think this hurts USAPA, our pilots, and US Airways."

Finally, Parker also made a point of noting,

"Unfortunately, it’s not just the Labor Committee that USAPA avoids. We also hold quarterly management-labor meetings around the time of earnings announcements to discuss, in a less formal environment, the issues surrounding US Airways and our labor unions. These meetings also are well attended by every union leader except you. While some of these meetings have more substance than others, it’s really the process of regular and consistent communication over time that helps to bridge gaps. Those union leaders that have regularly attended over the years have established much stronger relationships with their company and its management than USAPA has. This is not to suggest these relationships are particularly cozy – they often are not.

Some of the most confrontational conversations in which I’ve ever been involved have occurred at these labor committee and quarterly labor-management meetings, but at least we’ve had the conversations face-to-face and have left with a much better understanding of each other’s views and respect for each other’s perspective. Numerous positive changes have come out of these meetings for our unions and the people they represent and I am very glad we have them. I don’t believe you have attended a single one of these quarterly meetings."
​

This is ridiculous.

Oh, and the flight attendants at US Airways? They, according to those close to the negotiations I have talked to, are very close to a new tentative agreement. If they do come to terms on a new tentative agreement, this will leave the ever-so-dysfunctional USAPA pilots as the only remaining employee group without a new contract.

Frankly, they have no one to blame but themselves.