Seniority dispute ends at US Airways

[St. Nic]

No they don't represent because you dumbasses think that getting rid of the union will overturn a "legally binding" arbitration award.
Besides those stellar payscales, at least you have the respect of the industry:laugh::laugh::laugh:

uh, seniority robber, the union is not overturning anything, the seniority integration was never completed. Just check the facts, jack

 

[gutshotdraw]

FNG is spot on. Parker hoists a scotch to USAPA every night, shakes his head, laughs, and thinks about how to spend his bonus...

 

[Scope out RJ's]

uh, seniority robber, the union is not overturning anything, the seniority integration was never completed. Just check the facts, jack

Um, job stealer, the union is a farce, and not abiding by the law! You morons even picked Mr. Nicolau. Your job, company, career, and payscales are a joke, and that's a fact jack!

 

[Cowboy75]

USAPAWATCH IN PHILLY

Earlier this week staff members of TheEye attended the Philadelphia contract roadshow.

Mr. Theuer should have titled the pep rally, 'The blame game, why we are never going to get a contract.'

It is absolutely amazing to us that after 2 + years of USAPA controlled negotiations we are still discussing dues check off and the grievance process. It is crucial to note that these two sections along with almost every other section of the joint CBA were TA’d prior to USAPA’s election. It was only after the election that the new sheriff in town determined that the fastest route to completing the contract would involve opening every TA’d section for renegotiation. With only two remaining negotiating sessions scheduled in 2010, the completion of a contract is years away at best.

Of course, everyone but USAPA is responsible for delaying negotiations. The Company, the Addington plaintiff's (west pilots), and the evil former bargaining agent have made it impossible to reach an agreement.

Particularly troubling was the confidence exuded by our leaders over the Addington case dismissal. It was akin to the bravado displayed by the British and French prior to the opening salvos of the Somme Offensive. Either they believe what Mr. Seham is telling them or they are intentionally lying to obfuscate the reality of our situation.

Unspoken at the event was the fact that Company’s lawsuit is the deathblow to USAPA’s raison d’etre. There are few outcomes that would trigger the Company to acquiesce and negotiate a quasi date-of-hire seniority list. The Company filed the lawsuit to indemnify themselves from future litigation and to accelerate the pace of negotiations. The surest way they can do this is to uphold their contractual obligations as specified in the Transition Agreement.

It was clear to us that the only party seeking delay is USAPA. In conflict with Mr. Cleary’s pronouncements that the Company is delaying negotiations, court documents confirm the opposite to be true. Responding to Mr. Seham’s latest emergency stay request the Company wrote:

“...US Airways unequivocally is not neutral about when the seniority dispute is settled. That needs to happen now...Furthermore, if this lawsuit is stayed, the benefits US Airways would gain from completing negotiations for a single CBA will be delayed. These facts should weigh heavily in the Court’s decision whether to grant a stay.”

Contrary to what was broadcasted at the pep rally, USAPA is doing everything in its power to delay negotiations. Mr. Cleary has boxed us in a corner and any new CBA is destined to include the Nicolau Award.

We are sick and tired of the lies and finger pointing from our union leadership. Are you?

 

[xanderman]

We are sick and tired of the lies and finger pointing from our union leadership. Are you?

If this is true...

The east pilots (the ones on these boards anyhow) are morally bankrupt and they're so bloated with pride that I believe they could never back down now. In true east fashion they'll go down point the finger at somebody... Anybody!...but themselves.

 

[Cowboy75]

If this is true...

The east pilots (the ones on these boards anyhow) are morally bankrupt and they're so bloated with pride that I believe they could never back down now. In true east fashion they'll go down point the finger at somebody... Anybody!...but themselves.

They were a dysfunctional group before America West entered the picture. We are now the targets of their discontent.

 

[becket]

You must be referring to the Captain rate. ALPA's crack (smoking?) "negotiators" never did get anything like $95 for the 190 FO's.

It's interesting that so many USAPA haters disrespect the East pay rates. USAPA had nothing to do with negotiating those rates. That was ALPA's doing, and is one of the reasons they don't represent the pilots here today.

Isn't USAPA supposed to be the "most" democratic pilot union in history? If so, you should respect the fact that EAST PILOTS voted in LOA93 and WILLINGLY ACCEPTED those abysmal pay rates. Isn't that a living example of true democracy? Isn't that what USAPA is striving for? Also, even though ALPA presented you with Crappy Pay rates, that along is 1000% more that USAPA has provided in 2.5 years...and you call ALPA worthless?! :laugh: It's amazing how NOTHING is ever the East pilots fault...NOTHING.

 

[Turtle21]

Isn't USAPA supposed to be the "most" democratic pilot union in history? If so, you should respect the fact that EAST PILOTS voted in LOA93 and WILLINGLY ACCEPTED those abysmal pay rates. Isn't that a living example of true democracy? Isn't that what USAPA is striving for? Also, even though ALPA presented you with Crappy Pay rates, that along is 1000% more that USAPA has provided in 2.5 years...and you call ALPA worthless?! :laugh: It's amazing how NOTHING is ever the East pilots fault...NOTHING.

By your account the East is at fault for everything. Please send us your bill and we will get you a check in the mail for your damages.
XXOO:blush:

 

[Cowboy75]

If this is true...

The east pilots (the ones on these boards anyhow) are morally bankrupt and they're so bloated with pride that I believe they could never back down now. In true east fashion they'll go down point the finger at somebody... Anybody!...but themselves.

Morally bankrupt, that pretty much sums it up. I'll add another thought into the mix after dealing with their union. Something along the lines of taxation without representation.

I think there are a few symbols in Philly for those interested in history.

And Boston.....

 

[St. Nic]

The DOH list has been constructed with conditions and restrictions. It is fair and equitable for all and USAPA has put it up on the website. I suggest all west pilots read it and submit input on the conditions and restrictions, to be a part of the union and particpaite. We are tired of a select few out west holding things up. Lets move forward now that the 9th has settled seniority.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The DOH list has been constructed with conditions and restrictions. It is fair and equitable for all hahahahahahahaha and USAPA has put it up on the website. I suggest all west pilots read it and submit input on the conditions and restrictions, to be a part of the union and particpaite. We are tired of a select few out west holding things up. Lets move forward now that the 9th has settled seniority. double hahahahahahahahahaha

I can't WAIT until the Court comes back very soon saying "Oh yes, USAirways, you will be TOTALLY liable in a lawsuit if you agree to a contract with USAPA that abrogates Nic. Dougie will stop the presses on negotiations that include ANY form of DOH and then pour himself ANOTHER scotch, shake his head, laugh, and wonder how he ever got so lucky to have a bunch of knuckleheads working for 30% below industry standard wages.

 

[xanderman]

The DOH list has been constructed with conditions and restrictions. It is fair and equitable for all and USAPA has put it up on the website. I suggest all west pilots read it and submit input on the conditions and restrictions, to be a part of the union and particpaite. We are tired of a select few out west holding things up. Lets move forward now that the 9th has settled seniority.

In all seriousness I believe it is an instant failure when you tell me what my expectations were/are/should be. Not to mention the east quickly forgets the ills of their career just prior to the merger. There are SEC documents that will paint a less than rosy picture of what the east expectations were/are/should be. Conveniently the east run merger committee disregards that input. You see the problem lies in the fact that you are not, never could be, nor will ever be a neutral third party objectively looking at the facts. Strangely enough we did actually participate in that exact scenario and now you simply don't like the outcome.

Anyhow my issues with your CR's are these:

1. Basically easties can bid into PHX under straight DOH if there is any growth in PHX. They can bid in under straight DOH if a westy bids east leaving a vacancy. Oh! and, you guessed it, if that westy does go east it's straight DOH for them. This effectively creates a little bubble of existence in PHX for the AWA folks who, if they try to move will be punished by DOH, not to mention they can't have any growth if there is any and an easty wants it. Yeah that's fair...

2. Furlough. I am not even going to get into the details except to say with the current CR's you intend to make the west your furlough fodder.

In the end the company seeking and getting immunity from the courts is a super long shot. They, IMO, will not get it thereby rendering anything but Nic moot. If by chance they do get immunity we'll just end up going through with DFR II, possibly having to get a whole new contract, all because your pompous leadership will refuse anything other than what they currently have in their DOH list.

Oh! BTW it's not just a few my friend. It's the entire AWA brotherhood that will fight this until you agree to the Nic or you are all retired.

 

[eaglesview]

1. Basically easties can bid into PHX under straight DOH if there is any growth in PHX. They can bid in under straight DOH if a westy bids east leaving a vacancy. Oh! and, you guessed it, if that westy does go east it's straight DOH for them. This effectively creates a little bubble of existence in PHX for the AWA folks who, if they try to move will be punished by DOH, not to mention they can't have any growth if there is any and an easty wants it. Yeah that's fair...

QUOTE]

What, besides PHX was a westies expectations before the merger? Why does the west never acknowledger the amount of "EAST" flying they are doing now. There has got to be a compromise on both sides.

 

[xanderman]

What, besides PHX was a westies expectations before the merger? Why does the west never acknowledger the amount of "EAST" flying they are doing now. There has got to be a compromise on both sides.

Never attempted to ignore the flying we are doing out east. But then I didn't bring up the flying the east is doing out west. My point is that both entities are doing some flying that was not a part of their program prior to the merger. So tell me why the east should get everything outside of PHX (AND in PHX if there is any growth)? Are we (both carriers) not benefiting from this merger? Why does one side get the rewards? Your argument is pretty one sided... You are right though. There should be a compromise.

Oh...um...the compromise occurred in the arbitration. See the document entitled Nicolau Award for details.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

What, besides PHX was a westies expectations before the merger?

Ummmm, new airplanes, growth, a profitable company, new hires......
What was the expectations of the east pre merger???
Answer-------> Walmart Greeter, 18 year furloughs, 2nd trip to bankruptch, not able to make payroll.......

Why does the west never acknowledger the amount of "EAST" flying they are doing now. There has got to be a compromise on both sides.

How can you expect them to compromise with a bunch of job stealing scumbags who don't keep to their word! I would believe the east scumbags......The west should have just let that airline go out of business and done the world a favor.

 

[Ocity]

The DOH list has been constructed with conditions and restrictions. It is fair and equitable for all and USAPA has put it up on the website. I suggest all west pilots read it and submit input on the conditions and restrictions, to be a part of the union and particpaite. We are tired of a select few out west holding things up. Lets move forward now that the 9th has settled seniority.

The "Select Few" comprise of a Certified class of Litigants composing nearly 40% of the total pilot group. You won't see a single IOTA of "input" as to the trumped up C&R as envisioned by the one guy that wrote them from USAPA. You'd see a lot more union participation if you had say...oh I don't know....a REAL EFFING UNION?!

You're on crack if you think the 9th settled anything. Recall that "thorny" question they didn't want to talk about yet? Well the Companies Lawsuit is forcing that thorny question to the surface.

See you idiots in court. It was a hell of a lot of fun the first time, really looking fwd to it again. Of course, if the company is going to be held as liable as your fake union is; game over.

 

[TWA Dude]

What, besides PHX was a westies expectations before the merger? Why does the west never acknowledger the amount of "EAST" flying they are doing now. There has got to be a compromise on both sides.

The TA governs the allowed flying and you can bet if the West was flying more than allowed USAPA would be all over it. So you can drop that East talking point.

Also you fail to acknowledge what Nicolau pointed out, that the East had more to gain from the merger than the West. The list was crafted with that as a consideration

 

[eaglesview]

Ummmm, new airplanes, growth, a profitable company, new hires......
What was the expectations of the east pre merger???
Answer-------> Walmart Greeter, 18 year furloughs, 2nd trip to bankruptch, not able to make payroll.......

Really?? From the outside looking in it appears as though all "AWA" has done since the merger is shrink. Wasn't there a crew base in Vegas?? Now the west is doing a bunch of flying that used to be done by the east. The world is not black and white. There has to be a compromise.

 

[eaglesview]

The TA governs the allowed flying and you can bet if the West was flying more than allowed USAPA would be all over it. So you can drop that East talking point.

Also you fail to acknowledge what Nicolau pointed out, that the East had more to gain from the merger than the West. The list was crafted with that as a consideration

Drop it because it's true?? I didn't say they were "over the limit." but the statement is true, the west is doing a signifigant amount of "east" flying.

 

[xanderman]

Really?? From the outside looking in it appears as though all "AWA" has done since the merger is shrink. Wasn't there a crew base in Vegas?? Now the west is doing a bunch of flying that used to be done by the east. The world is not black and white. There has to be a compromise.

From the outside looking in? Maybe feigning ignorance. Or maybe you are that slow...I don't know. But having said that I can tell you that AWA was much more healthy. We did have airframes on order. We were upgrading and hiring from the street. What changed? Why is the west in decline? Simple really. Cost structure. AWA enjoyed a 7-8 cent CASM. The east has yet to achieve a CASM lower than 12 cents in the last 2 decades. So what happens to an airplane on a route that realized modest profits under 7-8 cent CASM that now bears the burden of a 12-14 cent CASM? I know I don't have to tell you that it gets removed from that route and put somewhere where it will make some profit. Smart business on behalf of the company but tough for employees. Why? We can clearly see that with the burden of their cost structure it will kill the west. So unfortunately the west will go the way of PSA (IMO). That is the reality. That is what we in the west fear! So tell me why after the life ring was tossed to our drowning victim they should pull us over board to use us for a flotation device? I choose the way of Nicolau. He knew the east would benefit to a much greater degree than the west and he crafted his SLI appropriately. Parker is no genious and therefore will not be able to devise a plan to counter the high CASM in the east. The simple and logical plan is to shrink and focus efforts out east where there can be some modest gains realized. Sorry but there is not a damn thing any east pilot can tell me that will convince me that their C&R's are fair. Especially in the context of my response!