Spirit TA

[Skyboy722]

Soo, awfully quiet. What do you guys think? Does it meet your expectations?

 

[boomlrd]

Hell no! VOTE NO!

 

[johnsonrod]

Anyone who votes YES for this TA is a SERIOUS LOSER. Bottom line: it sucks dudes... Living in FL ain't cheap. Tell Baldanza to shove it!

 

[critterair2]

I would love to get this thing done, we are all tired and worn out from this process. MEC even more so....That being said I am sorry to report that its going to be a big fat f"n NO!for me. Made up my mind about 10 mins ago. Went back and forth since this thing was released but I just can't do it.....I mean why is Health Insurance rates, copay's etc even in this thing. Does any other pilot group have this in theirs? It looks like a way for us to give money back and that is all.

 

[Redhot99]

I would have to vote no on the scope clause alone. Someone brought it to my attention that it is written very poorly. The company can dry lease our airplanes out and than enter into a code share or pro rate agreement. There is no seat limit so those A330's they had the option for can go right to another carrier like Air Lingus. We will end up just like Midwest, they had a code share with Republic. Pay rates won't matter at that point.

 

[Hamburger]

Thanks, for the "we suck" speech, and for your unwavering support.

Take a breath, brother...Nobody said that you suck or we don't support Spirit. I said that if you have complaints/issues, they are with the elected members of YOUR pilot group, not ALPA.

People love to bash ALPA because they feel wronged by their local representation, and it just gets old.

Of the United States? No.

Of the HOA? Yes, my assessment last year went to fix the pot holes.

Well put. ALPA is the United States, your MEC is your HOA.
Best of luck.

 

[Splert]

I would love to get this thing done, we are all tired and worn out from this process. MEC even more so....That being said I am sorry to report that its going to be a big fat f"n NO!for me. Made up my mind about 10 mins ago. Went back and forth since this thing was released but I just can't do it.....I mean why is Health Insurance rates, copay's etc even in this thing. Does any other pilot group have this in theirs? It looks like a way for us to give money back and that is all.

Yes lots of contract contain co-pays etc. It is a good thing!

 

[critterair2]

Good thing maybe, but this part scares me...any lawyer types out there can explain this one, since my union hasn't

Effective January 1, 2011, and each January 1​

​

​

​

st thereafter, pilot monthly medical/dental
insurance contribution rates may be subject to an annual increase equal to the lesser of:​

1) the company-projected increase in the cost of the plan, and 2) seven percent (7%).

 

[critterair2]

wish it said OR 7 percent

 

[PCL_128]

wish it said OR 7 percent

That's exactly what it means. It's the "lessor of" two things, so "and" works just fine. The end result is that your insurance can't go up by more than 7% per year, which is excellent, since the company's costs are likely going up by 20%.

 

[Splert]

Good thing maybe, but this part scares me...any lawyer types out there can explain this one, since my union hasn't

Effective January 1, 2011, and each January 1​

st thereafter, pilot monthly medical/dental
insurance contribution rates may be subject to an annual increase equal to the lesser of:​

1) the company-projected increase in the cost of the plan, and 2) seven percent (7%).

Your deductible and co-pays and max out of pocket are part of your CBA.

That is a good thing. Not maybe but 100% a good thing.

Without that your rates could go up 7% and your deductible could double while co-pays go up 50%.

Or your airline could terminate the entire plan and go with a high deductible medical plan.

 

[boomlrd]

Our previous CBA locked in all health care costs, including copays and deductibles, they could not be raised period, now this CBA allows them to raise it, not good!

 

[27 driver]

Boom, I am sensing a NO vote coming from you. Don't hold back. Lets us know how you really feel.

 

[CosmoKramer]

absolutely NO way will I vote for this thing.....Still 25 below jblu and trs.....nice try....the signing bonus is a joke....they made money off my back with almost 4 years of bad faith bargaining......A yes vote let's them and everyone else know they won......

If you plan on voting yes, don't complain to me when this place grows and goes public and you see how your peers are paid....They are even spinning the reserve section....there will be immediate furloughs and downgrades because of the changes. If your in the bottom 20 percent, plan on having some time off. I thought the whole reason for this strike was for pay parity...we did not get.....

 

[lostplnetairman]

Our previous CBA locked in all health care costs, including copays and deductibles, they could not be raised period, now this CBA allows them to raise it, not good!

As I recall, that's not true. The previous CBA was as this one is, except the limit was at 10%. Then the company tried to increase costs of insurance plus increase cost sharing. The union called them on it and won. That's why generic co-pays went from $10 to $11, why office visits went from $15 to $16 and then to $17. That's why the deductible went from $250 to $275, etc.

This is the same as the current contract, except the limit is reduced to 7%. Plus the provisions of health care reform will kick in as the plan is no longer grandfathered--meaning no cost sharing on preventative care, limits on annual and lifetime maximums, etc.

 

[:-)]

As I recall, that's not true. The previous CBA was as this one is, except the limit was at 10%. Then the company tried to increase costs of insurance plus increase cost sharing. The union called them on it and won. That's why generic co-pays went from $10 to $11, why office visits went from $15 to $16 and then to $17. That's why the deductible went from $250 to $275, etc.

This is the same as the current contract, except the limit is reduced to 7%. Plus the provisions of health care reform will kick in as the plan is no longer grandfathered--meaning no cost sharing on preventative care, limits on annual and lifetime maximums, etc.

That's great news, they can only increase the cost by 7% a year.

You conveniently forgot to mention that the initial increase is as much as 80% for some of us.

This TA is cost neutral. After all of the political grandstanding, our union tucked their tail and ran like whipped dogs.

Vote NO

PS. POS II Plan B total out of pocket limits were increased by like 1000%. the devil's in the details.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm curious. Did the MEC release to it's members the ' return to work rules ' they negotiated with the company?

My thought is the MEC made some deal with the company to force you guys to keep working as long as the NC keeps talking with the company, in the event this most current TA gets voted down.

I'm not seeing what this strike accomplished at this point, and if the MEC has the power to force it's members back to work....where does this go?

 

[lostplnetairman]

That's great news, they can only increase the cost by 7% a year.

You conveniently forgot to mention that the initial increase is as much as 80% for some of us.

This TA is cost neutral. After all of the political grandstanding, our union tucked their tail and ran like whipped dogs.

Vote NO

PS. POS II Plan B total out of pocket limits were increased by like 1000%. the devil's in the details.

I didn't conveniently forget to mention anything; I was responding to the claim that the deductibles and co-pays could increase beyond 7%. If you read the 2000+ page health care reform law and you will see that, as a non-grandfathered plan, the out of pocket annual and lifetime limits will be subject to the terms of the law. It doesn't matter what's in the contract. CBA's signed after 3/23/2010 have to follow the schedule of provisions in the law. The timetable is later for grandfathered plans. Since this one isn't, the timetable begins to take effect in 2010.


You also need to compare and contrast benefit packages among the carriers with whom compensation parity is desired.

 

[WayBack]

Didn't Comair have the deep pockets of daddy Delta supporting them for 89 days as they were bleeding red ink? Get realistic...the goal is to have a job to come back to...a better job than the one we walked off.

The airline did, yes.
What about these deep pockets of ALPA we hear all about? They have the resources right? They "trained" your MEC leaders how to negotiate, didn't they?

Didn't ALPA reach out to the other ALPA carriers for money for you guys while you were on strike? It might help if you stayed on strike for longer than a week, can't really get a pilot group to vote on something like overnight.
Again, ALPA failed you and will take their 2% every month just to remind you.

 

[WayBack]

I'm not seeing what this strike accomplished at this point, and if the MEC has the power to force it's members back to work....where does this go?

Photo Op for their magazine to cover up the Tim Martins blunder. Air time on the news....other than that, not much.
For the guys who think this is good and will vote YES, I have no idea how you live with yourself. If I were your self-conscious, I'd choke you while you slept.

 

[boomlrd]

The NO voters will win this! Too many of us out there now, they screwed over the biggest group of voters, FO's on 1-5 year pay. Plus with all the downgrades of Captains due to contract efficiencies, those 40 at the bottom will vote NO too! Thats way over half the pilot group at this point, I say lets make it a 98% NO vote and show some unity!

 

[CosmoKramer]

Just look at 4 year captain pay....it is 35/hr less than jetblue...so if they grow in the next couple of years you will be making 27 percent less than a jetblue pilot....i can't believe this....even jblu's e-190's rate will be 21 dollars more than nks....this is the biggest f-up i've seen. I am in total disgust and awe at ALPA. I apologize to all my peers...We tried, but our union failed us....We had the leverage and couldn't close the deal....vote no if you have any self respect.....

 

[lostplnetairman]

The NO voters will win this! Too many of us out there now, they screwed over the biggest group of voters, FO's on 1-5 year pay. Plus with all the downgrades of Captains due to contract efficiencies, those 40 at the bottom will vote NO too! Thats way over half the pilot group at this point, I say lets make it a 98% NO vote and show some unity!

Hey Herb are you upset they'll take away your LOA?

 

[flygirlqt]

Photo Op for their magazine to cover up the Tim Martins blunder. Air time on the news....other than that, not much.

Quite true. ALPA sold each and every one of you out. It is all about dues for ALPA, nothing more. Effective representation takes a back seat to keep their revenue stream intact.

 

[Caveman]

Pay rates shouldn't be the sole focus, but........

A quick comparison of apples to apples rates (DOS vs OAL current rates) shows in general this TA still leaves you guys behind everybody else. Your company made $100,000,000+ last year. This is their first real offer. If it were me I'd pass and see what the next offer looks like. Even adding $10 an hour to the proposed rates only amounts to $5M. That still leaves them $95,000,000 in profit. They can afford it and they're not going to shut the doors because of 5% less profit year over year. YMMV

 

[WayBack]

That still leaves them $95,000,000 in profit. They can afford it and they're not going to shut the doors because of 5% less profit year over year. YMMV

If this is true about their profits, not saying it's not. Then you need big pay increases.
If they can't afford to pay employees, then they need to shut the doors.

 

[Beetle007]

Just listened to the union phone call

According to the ALPA lawyer, the NMB member (Linda Puchala) was the person who helped put this deal together and gave each party what she considered a fair contract. Linda is a previous Union president and was one of the members on the NMB who voted to release Spirit into self help. She is currently labor friendly. http://www.nmb.gov/directory/dirboard.html

Even though we are in self help, it would only take one phone call from Linda to convince Obama to establish a Presidential Emergency Board which would stop us from striking (she was appointed by Obama). If we vote this TA down, it is possible we would be stopped from going on strike a second time. According to the ALPA lawyer, we might end up fighting for our contract in a court and it is possible a court would give us a worse contract due to the costs the company incurred from us going on strike.

In my opinion, ALPA national wants us to vote yes for this contract because they consider it a fair contract and it met all of their goals. More importantly, ALPA national doesn't want to lose favor with the NMB to release other ALPA airlines into self-help in the near future.

 

[boomlrd]

Beetle007 = Bailman

 

[Beetle007]

Beetle007 = Bailman

I am also Frisco FO on airlinepilotcentral.com

 

[lostplnetairman]

It was a good conference call.