Spirit TA

[Shrek]

Section 25 is a JOKE in the new TA

:uzi:Vote NO !!!!!

 

[CosmoKramer]

CK, I think if the TA said you only had to work one day a week, you would say, yea but which day.

Hell no, that is great deal!!! I ain't stupid!!!

 

[lostplnetairman]

Section 25 is a JOKE in the new TA

:uzi:Vote NO !!!!!

And how's your schedule these days?

 

[CosmoKramer]

It was a good conference call.

Yeh, BBB loved it.....

 

[CosmoKramer]

Just listened to the union phone call

According to the ALPA lawyer, the NMB member (Linda Puchala) was the person who helped put this deal together and gave each party what she considered a fair contract. Linda is a previous Union president and was one of the members on the NMB who voted to release Spirit into self help. She is currently labor friendly. http://www.nmb.gov/directory/dirboard.html

Even though we are in self help, it would only take one phone call from Linda to convince Obama to establish a Presidential Emergency Board which would stop us from striking (she was appointed by Obama). If we vote this TA down, it is possible we would be stopped from going on strike a second time. According to the ALPA lawyer, we might end up fighting for our contract in a court and it is possible a court would give us a worse contract due to the costs the company incurred from us going on strike.

In my opinion, ALPA national wants us to vote yes for this contract because they consider it a fair contract and it met all of their goals. More importantly, ALPA national doesn't want to lose favor with the NMB to release other ALPA airlines into self-help in the near future.

She gave each side this offer??? Huh, I didn't know we were in arbitration.....

In my opinion, if we vote no, we will be offered another TA. It will increase our W-2's. We will have an ESOP and will get 150% back.

 

[bubbers44]

Wish I could get what you are smoking.

 

[lostplnetairman]

She gave each side this offer??? Huh, I didn't know we were in arbitration.....

In my opinion, if we vote no, we will be offered another TA. It will increase our W-2's. We will have an ESOP and will get 150% back.

Yeah, ok, the super senior check airmen are worried and trying to scare everyone to protect their own. Just leave already.

 

[Shrek]

And how's your schedule these days?

5 weeks on 3 weeks off in a different country. I would rather be here and stay on furlough than settle for a contract such as yours.

With these work rules it is a concessionary one in my opinion. This is no TA that one would strike for...

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Just listened to the union phone call

According to the ALPA lawyer, the NMB member (Linda Puchala) was the person who helped put this deal together and gave each party what she considered a fair contract. Linda is a previous Union president and was one of the members on the NMB who voted to release Spirit into self help. She is currently labor friendly. http://www.nmb.gov/directory/dirboard.html

Even though we are in self help, it would only take one phone call from Linda to convince Obama to establish a Presidential Emergency Board which would stop us from striking (she was appointed by Obama). If we vote this TA down, it is possible we would be stopped from going on strike a second time. According to the ALPA lawyer, we might end up fighting for our contract in a court and it is possible a court would give us a worse contract due to the costs the company incurred from us going on strike.

In my opinion, ALPA national wants us to vote yes for this contract because they consider it a fair contract and it met all of their goals. More importantly, ALPA national doesn't want to lose favor with the NMB to release other ALPA airlines into self-help in the near future.

The above is so wrong and the poster needs a serious education on the workings of the RLA.

The only thing correct is that Obama can order a PEB. That's 30 days to appoint and supermediate with the parties, have the membership vote on the recommended TA and if it's turned down, another 30 days of cooling off.

After that, the Spirit pilots can strike again. The statement saying the contract will be decided in court is complete B.S. and dead wrong. The courts are done and out of the picture unless there is a violation of the RLA. If the Spirit pilots decide to turn down the PEB and strike, Obama cannot do a G-dam thing about it, the courts cannot do a G-dam thing about it, Spirit management cannot do a G-dam thing about it. The only group that can order the Spirit pilots back to work, and force a contract on them is the full United States Congress. Got a little news flash for you all, that's not going to happen with this Congress and a labor group the size of the Spirit pilots.

Everybody clear now?


The PEB process can be an emotional roller coaster and persuade the labor group to settle out of battle fatigue if they aren't prepared for it. That's what happen to the AA pilot's in 1997.

 

[Beetle007]

Section 25 is a JOKE in the new TA

:uzi:Vote NO !!!!!

Didn't you leave Spirit to go to United? A United captain tops out at 138 an hour with a crappy pref bidding system and no 4 days off. At DOS a Spirit Captain will top out at $151.67 and after 4 years will top out at $185.32

Not knocking United..but don't tell us to vote NO for a contract that puts our captains at 34% higher than the airline you went to.

I would also guarantee that the Spirit scheduling section is much better than United's scheduling section. Can you bid a conflict and get an extra 6 days off pay protected (our TA allows that), are you guaranteed 4 days off?, does your scheduling system allow you to convert a week of vacation into 3 weeks. I also love our new bid options and reserve system. Can United release you from reserve early into rest? (Our TA prohibits that). Can United junior assign you while you are at the airport (Our TA prohibits that). Do you guys have line bidding or pref bidding?

Honestly...I could go on and on...so tell me all the things you like in the United scheduling section that we don't have at Spirit.

 

[Lear70]

Pref bidding sucks if the pairings suck.

Be VERY, VERY careful about Pref Bidding and make sure trigger points are there for you to yank it if they start jacking your schedules around. Been there, done that, have that t-shirt.

/soapbox

 

[Beetle007]

After that, the Spirit pilots can strike again. The statement saying the contract will be decided in court is complete B.S. and dead wrong. The courts are done and out of the picture unless there is a violation of the RLA.

How about this...our ALPA Laywer representing us during negotiations said the courts would look at the TA and costs of the strike and the court might give us a worse contract.

Either way we are screwed if we vote no. Either we have a horrible ALPA laywer representing us during negotiations. Or, he is correct and we will be screwed in the court sytem.

 

[Beetle007]

Pref bidding sucks if the pairings suck.

Be VERY, VERY careful about Pref Bidding and make sure trigger points are there for you to yank it if they start jacking your schedules around. Been there, done that, have that t-shirt.

/soapbox

Spirit pilots said 2 years ago that we wouldn't even discuss pref bidding. We are sticking with line bidding.

 

[Lear70]

How about this...our ALPA Laywer representing us during negotiations said the courts would look at the TA and costs of the strike and the court might give us a worse contract.

Either way we are screwed if we vote no. Either we have a horrible ALPA laywer representing us during negotiations. Or, he is correct and we will be screwed in the court sytem.

I'm still confused.

Exactly HOW will you end up in court to determine your contract? The ONLY way that's possible inside the confines of the RLA is in an 1113(c) filing in bankruptcy.

Not exactly sure where you're getting your information, but it's erroneous in the extreme...

 

[lostplnetairman]

Didn't you leave Spirit to go to United? A United captain tops out at 138 an hour with a crappy pref bidding system and no 4 days off. At DOS a Spirit Captain will top out at $151.67 and after 4 years will top out at $185.32

Not knocking United..but don't tell us to vote NO for a contract that puts our captains at 34% higher than the airline you went to.

I would also guarantee that the Spirit scheduling section is much better than United's scheduling section. Can you bid a conflict and get an extra 6 days off pay protected (our TA allows that), are you guaranteed 4 days off?, does your scheduling system allow you to convert a week of vacation into 3 weeks. I also love our new bid options and reserve system. Can United release you from reserve early into rest? (Our TA prohibits that). Can United junior assign you while you are at the airport (Our TA prohibits that). Do you guys have line bidding or pref bidding?

Honestly...I could go on and on...so tell me all the things you like in the United scheduling section that we don't have at Spirit.

No he complained and complained and left for United, only to get furloughed. Now he sits and tells Spirit pilots what to do on the internet.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Now he sits and tells Spirit pilots what to do on the internet.

At least you share something in common...

 

[Beetle007]

deleted....cause I figured it out

 

[:-)]

No he complained and complained and left for United, only to get furloughed. Now he sits and tells Spirit pilots what to do on the internet.

Shrek left for Yoonited because he lives in the mountains and he always wanted to be a U pilot. He didn't complain about Spirit. He didn't leave because of anything about Spirit. But that was a nice shot, you got that going for ya.

About United, What's the top pay and days for their widebodies? They are slightly more than 28 baby airbii you know.

 

[Lear70]

Not to mention, United is operating under a bankruptcy-imposed 1113(c) contract and pay rates.

Not that their financials support it, but don't be surprised if, when they get to renegotiate their next contract, their rates snap back up about 30-40%. They might never be $300k+ a year Widebody max CA pay (or at least not in our career tracks), but they'll be well back above $200k a year for Widebody max CA pay after the next round along with work rules worthy of a Legacy/Major airline as well; bet you a C-note on it.

That said, comparing yourself to other carriers, while important for the PROFESSION as a whole, is less important than deciding if YOU can live with this contract and whether it was worth the angst of YEARS of fighting and a STRIKE to obtain. Personally, as I've said before, I'd vote NO, simply because of Scope, the loss of your overtime pay, their ability to build high-time lines that will come close to equaling out what many of you were already making, and the pay rates that aren't even CLOSE to industry average for that equipment. But I don't have to make that choice, you do.

Just make sure you understand the next steps if you DO vote NO. And they AREN'T getting parked by a PEB in all likelihood, and most ASSUREDLY do NOT result in having the NMB or a court system deciding your contract. You CAN immediately go BACK on strike if your MEC so decides after voting down a T.A. That's a FACT. I've been doing ALPA work for a long time and understand the RLA quite well, and I'm here to tell you if anyone is telling you differently than this, they're lying to your face (or deliberately exaggerating the chances of a PEB to a ridiculous extreme) as a scare tactic. You're not big enough to declare a PEB. Seriously, no offense intended, but you're not. And there is NO mechanism to force a contract from you in court unless the company files bankruptcy. Period. The end.

Best of luck...

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Lear70,


You summed it up well.

I don't know where he is getting the idea of the "courts" writing the Spirit contract. If the ALPA lawyer stated that without mentioning the only way for Spirit management to get a court written contract is to go CHP 11 and get a 113C, then this ALPA lawyer needs to be nailed to the nearest wall.

I agree also that the PEB is unlikely with Spirit due to it's size. The only thing that makes it possible would be if Rahm Emanuel thinks he can use it for 15 minutes of "feel good" news to divert the attenion from 20 other negative stories about B.O. Rahm also has probably figured out that 1/2 of Spirits pax will vote for the Dems' no matter what and the other 1/2 can't even vote because of a prior Felony conviction No Politician gives a krap about their loyal constituents, only the swing voters.