Republic Airways posts first quarter loss

[Captain Morgan]

Dude, I can empathize with you, but are you really comparing your "career 'fate'" to ours? Do you think you've got it so damn bad? What did you expect when you CHOSE to work at the least scrupulous regional in the industry? F9 and YX are the victims here, not you...

Jeeez, everyone feels they are a victim nowdays... You know what it is, a damn shame, that's all. When we all accepted these jobs we weren't guaranteed a thing. We all knew the possibilities of being furloughed and merged and so forth. I feel badly for people that get a raw deal, but that's life. We aren't going to skip hand and hand through the fields of dandilions, just not going to happen.

 

[Flying Illini]

Oh well,
That chubbie you got from the "guppy killer" , is now a softy, oh well, the tragic irony is classic.
Sorry for your folly
PBR

Funny stuff. When I chose to accept employment at RAH it wasn't b/c of the equipment (I accepted their offer without having a class date nor knowing which company I was going to). I came here because they had several bases that would work for me. As a matter of fact, equipment played NO part in my decision to come here. It just worked out that I get to fly a nice a/c. The bad news is that the rate sucks. I knew the rate wasn't great when I came on property, I also knew that the contract was amendable in Oct. 2007. I figured it would be nice to be able to try and make it better. I'm still waiting for something to vote on.

Dude, I can empathize with you, but are you really comparing your "career 'fate'" to ours? Do you think you've got it so damn bad? What did you expect when you CHOSE to work at the least scrupulous regional in the industry? F9 and YX are the victims here, not you...

Not exactly comparing our fates, just saying that while this truly sucks for you, it also sucks for others just in a different way. Many YX/F9 guys seem to think that every pilot at RAH is happy/excited about these acquisitions that our management made and the ensuing SLI. Many of us are decidedly NOT excited about it. That's all I was trying to say.

As for the rest, nothing is guaranteed in this career, that's for sure. While it's perfectly within reason to see two LCC's merge I never EVER thought I would see the day that a regional holding company would purchase two LCC's. This is fairly uncharted territory and time will tell if the experiment will work out. I'm guessing it won't, which is why I have no intention of hanging around here any longer than I have to...but then again, my intention was always to go to a regional, get my time and get out, regardless of the equipment and the company.

 

[BORG]

I was checking out www.SpiritAirlinesScabs.com (I support Spirit airlines pilots 100 percent and hope you get a fair and reasonable contract) and came across this gem:

Unions define a "SCAB" as someone that has either refused to join the union or has crossed a picket line and gone to work during a lawful strike. There are various definitions of “SCAB” in the labor context, some of which are: (1), one who refuses to join a union (2), a member of a union who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3), worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4), one who works for lower wages than or under conditions contrary to those prescribed by a union (5). (Webster's 3rd New Intl. Dictionary (1986); also, Black’s Law Dictionary, 8th Ed.)

According to point #4 above, they sure seem to agree with my assessment that Republic pilots acted as scabs. Just sayin'...

Here it is from Merriam-Webster: www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/scab

 

[Cardinal]

The letter to all pilot's unions from ALPA HQ on behalf of the Spirit pilots signed by Capt. John Prater uses a much narrower definition.

 

[Popeye0537]

I was checking out www.SpiritAirlinesScabs.com (I support Spirit airlines pilots 100 percent and hope you get a fair and reasonable contract) and came across this gem:

Unions define a "SCAB" as someone that has either refused to join the union or has crossed a picket line and gone to work during a lawful strike. There are various definitions of “SCAB” in the labor context, some of which are: (1), one who refuses to join a union (2), a member of a union who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3), worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4), one who works for lower wages than or under conditions contrary to those prescribed by a union (5). (Webster's 3rd New Intl. Dictionary (1986); also, Black’s Law Dictionary, 8th Ed.)

According to point #4 above, they sure seem to agree with my assessment that Republic pilots acted as scabs. Just sayin'...

Here it is from Merriam-Webster: www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/scab

Every airline has acted like a scab with that definition.....Midwest rates compared to United/Delta/AA.....I guess Airtran is a bunch of Scabs when you look at wages compared to YX

Wahoo, we're all Scabs!!

 

[BORG]

The letter to all pilot's unions from ALPA HQ on behalf of the Spirit pilots signed by Capt. John Prater uses a much narrower definition.

I wouldn't know how Capt. Prater defines scabbing because I no longer have an ALPA job, remember?! Just sayin'...

 

[BORG]

Every airline has acted like a scab with that definition.....Midwest rates compared to United/Delta/AA.....I guess Airtran is a bunch of Scabs when you look at wages compared to YX

Wahoo, we're all Scabs!!

If you look, Midwest rates were pretty comparable to Delta DC9/MD80 rates and they were higher than Northwest's. I think you'll have to admit that Midwest and Airtran were/are alot closer to United/Delta/AA than Republic is... I know, I know... "Republic is just a lowly regional, blah, blah, blah." Well Republic is doing mainline "branded schtuff" now so I guess that makes them scab mainline pilots.

All the Republic pilots got their panties in a bunch when I compared what they did to scabbing (which I still stand by); I just wanted to point out that good ol' Merriam and Webster agree with my assessment. Just sayin'...

 

[Popeye0537]

If you look, Midwest rates were pretty comparable to Delta DC9/MD80 rates and they were higher than Northwest's. I think you'll have to admit that Midwest and Airtran were/are alot closer to United/Delta/AA than Republic is... I know, I know... "Republic is just a lowly regional, blah, blah, blah." Well Republic is doing mainline "branded schtuff" now so I guess that makes them scab mainline pilots.

All the Republic pilots got their panties in a bunch when I compared what they did to scabbing (which I still stand by); I just wanted to point out that good ol' Merriam and Webster agree with my assessment. Just sayin'...

How can you call Republic pilots Scabs, we own the flying. Not YX,not F9 but Republic. That's what happens when you are aquired. Our rates on the 190 for CA are better than UsAir, they aren't B6 but they were agreed upon 6 years before one showed up. Midwest rates were comparable to Delta's rates after they took a paycut.

 

[BORG]

How can you call Republic pilots Scabs, we own the flying. Not YX,not F9 but Republic. That's what happens when you are aquired. Our rates on the 190 for CA are better than UsAir, they aren't B6 but they were agreed upon 6 years before one showed up. Midwest rates were comparable to Delta's rates after they took a paycut.

You're scabs because of the fact that you undercut us BEFORE it was "your" flying. I'll say it one more time for the slow kids...

Midwest management came to the YX pilot group and demanded paycuts. The YX pilot group said "Hell no." Mangement said, "if you take the paycuts we will put the 190s (as you know Midwest was even writing the training program for 190s) on the Midwest certificate, all YX pilots will be recalled, the airline will grow, it'll be so good." The Midwest pilots said "Thanks, but no thanks." Then you (Republic) took over our flying at substantially reduced rates and (here is the important part) AFTER this whole debacle, Republic bought Midwest.

The fact that you undercut our payrates and performed our jobs in what were intended to be our airplanes (if only we'd take paycuts) at substantially lower pay meets Webster's definition of scab - See point number 4 above.

The bottom line is this: you took away our ability to negotiate. That is what a scab does. It's not a complicated idea. If you cross a picket line you hurt the union's ability to apply pressure to management and thereby make negotiations impossible. Likewise, if you fly "our" airplanes (because they were supposed to be our airplanes) for substandard wages (and clearly they are substandard because they are 40-60% lower than we were getting paid to fly jets with fewer seats) while we are trying to negotiate a payscale for said airplanes, you have done the same thing as a scab crossing a picket line - you've made it impossible for us to negotiate our own rates.

This all went down BEFORE Republic bought Midwest.

 

[Flying Illini]

Is there a "beating a dead horse" smiley?

You would be able to call RAH pilots scabs had we specifically undercut you on rates for the sole purpose of acquiring the flying (mgmt coming to us and asking us to reduce our pay so we get more flying). It's clear that wasn't the case and you know it.

 

[BORG]

Is there a "beating a dead horse" smiley?

You would be able to call RAH pilots scabs had we specifically undercut you on rates for the sole purpose of acquiring the flying (mgmt coming to us and asking us to reduce our pay so we get more flying). It's clear that wasn't the case and you know it.

What?! That is completely illogical.

The question that will end this debate is: Do you think you (Republic) hurt our (Midwest) chances to negotiate E190 rates?

If you say yes, you are correct.

If you say no, you are a delusional idiot.

 

[Flying Illini]

What?! That is completely illogical.

The question that will end this debate is: Do you think you (Republic) hurt our (Midwest) chances to negotiate E190 rates?

If you say yes, you are correct.

If you say no, you are a delusional idiot.

Please explain how it's illogical. What I stated is truth.

 

[BORG]

"Please explain how it's illogical. What I stated is truth."

You specifically undercut us on rates and acquired our flying. It doesn't matter how or why it happened - it still happened. You undercut our payrates on "our" airplanes (that we were trying to negotiate rates for) and you still ended up flying "our" airplanes on our routes. All of this happened before Republic bought Midwest. That makes you a replacement worker. That is what a scab is. You were doing our job in our jets specfically because you were cheaper labor.

The only reason you got the flying in the first place is because you were willing to do it cheaper than we were. Would you rather I call you a wh0re? You're either that or a scab and I don't know which is worse...

 

[say again]

They are not Scabs, but rather wh0res. Please educate yourselves on the difference

 

[Flying Illini]

"Please explain how it's illogical. What I stated is truth."

You specifically undercut us on rates and acquired our flying. It doesn't matter how or why it happened - it still happened. You undercut our payrates on "our" airplanes (that we were trying to negotiate rates for) and you still ended up flying "our" airplanes on our routes. All of this happened before Republic bought Midwest. That makes you a replacement worker. That is what a scab is. You were doing our job in our jets specfically because you were cheaper labor.

The only reason you got the flying in the first place is because you were willing to do it cheaper than we were. Would you rather I call you a wh0re? You're either that or a scab and I don't know which is worse...

Not sure where to start.

We did not "specifically" undercut you to fly "your" (they weren't your's at the time as you had none on property and no orders for them) airplanes. For that to happen your company would have had to come to our company and then our company would have had to come to us and asked us to lower our rates so that we could get "your" airplanes.

Like I said before, we all know that didn't happen. I don't know what specifically transpired between your management and mine and when exactly it happened (neither do you, btw) but I'm sure they had it all worked out long before we all found out about it. You were sold out by your mgmt and it just happened to be to RAH. Did my management initiate talks with yours or did your management initiate talks with mine. I dunno. I do know that labor is caught (again) in the middle which makes mgmt very happy.

Regional airlines, by their nature, pay less than LCC's and majors. Is every regional pilot a scab? Or is every past and present regional pilot a whore?

I've got nothing against you, and I'm having trouble figuring out why you have something against me. Our fallacy may have been agreeing to 99 seat rates (and not taking them seriously) back in 2003. That was probably short-sighted but hindsight is always 20/20. Live and learn.

 

[CitationLover]

betcha those C series rates are 70-80% of current 737 rates

 

[BORG]

betcha those C series rates are 70-80% of current 737 rates

Citation, i think 70-80% might be a little optimistic...

 

[flyhawk]

If you look, Midwest rates were pretty comparable to Delta DC9/MD80 rates and they were higher than Northwest's. I think you'll have to admit that Midwest and Airtran were/are alot closer to United/Delta/AA than Republic is... I know, I know... "Republic is just a lowly regional, blah, blah, blah." Well Republic is doing mainline "branded schtuff" now so I guess that makes them scab mainline pilots.

All the Republic pilots got their panties in a bunch when I compared what they did to scabbing (which I still stand by); I just wanted to point out that good ol' Merriam and Webster agree with my assessment. Just sayin'...

BORG,

I grow tired and weary of your whining........it sucks for you, it sucks for me, it sucks for many........ Just sayin'........

 

[FSIGRAD]

You're scabs because of the fact that you undercut us BEFORE it was "your" flying. I'll say it one more time for the slow kids...

Midwest management came to the YX pilot group and demanded paycuts. The YX pilot group said "Hell no." Mangement said, "if you take the paycuts we will put the 190s (as you know Midwest was even writing the training program for 190s) on the Midwest certificate, all YX pilots will be recalled, the airline will grow, it'll be so good." The Midwest pilots said "Thanks, but no thanks." Then you (Republic) took over our flying at substantially reduced rates and (here is the important part) AFTER this whole debacle, Republic bought Midwest.

The fact that you undercut our payrates and performed our jobs in what were intended to be our airplanes (if only we'd take paycuts) at substantially lower pay meets Webster's definition of scab - See point number 4 above.

The bottom line is this: you took away our ability to negotiate. That is what a scab does. It's not a complicated idea. If you cross a picket line you hurt the union's ability to apply pressure to management and thereby make negotiations impossible. Likewise, if you fly "our" airplanes (because they were supposed to be our airplanes) for substandard wages (and clearly they are substandard because they are 40-60% lower than we were getting paid to fly jets with fewer seats) while we are trying to negotiate a payscale for said airplanes, you have done the same thing as a scab crossing a picket line - you've made it impossible for us to negotiate our own rates.

This all went down BEFORE Republic bought Midwest.

YX was broke. They never had any intention of replacing your fleet with 190's. That was a pipe dream to keep you guys flying while management packed their golden parachutes.

 

[BORG]

BORG,

I grow tired and weary of your whining........it sucks for you, it sucks for me, it sucks for many........ Just sayin'........

I view it less as whining and more as trying to educate a group of people that seem too damn stupid to figure it out on their own. You've heard the cliche about learning from the past or repeating it? With the attitudes displayed by most Republic pilots I've encountered you will be the next group undercut by some bottom-feeder and then we'll see how you feel about it.

As I've said many times on here, I've long since moved on from Midwest and am relieved to see the brand go away while people can still remember how it used to be.

If you don't like what I have to say I'd invite you to select ignore or stfu. Just sayin'...