Alaska offerers 80K to retire is it enough?

[Old School 737]

Alaska offerers 80K to retire! Is it enough to get the min 25 required to mitigate more layoffs? I don't think they will get enough but What The F Do I No?

 

[AKMD80GUY]

Dear old timer:

Please go F your self with this $80k buy out.

Sincerely,

AS Mismanagement.

 

[Kharma Police]

How many pilots do you guys have on the street? More importantly I thought you guys were doing well? Why the furloughs? Have you guys heard any rumors about a merger with AirTran?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What cracks me up is that the minimum participation is 25 and the max is 30. But they need to furlough 80.

In other words, "We at Alaska management want to furlough you."

 

[Colonel Savage]

How is 80K suppossed to entice someone who makes twice that in one year to retire? It's stooopid!

 

[QCappy]

What cracks me up is that the minimum participation is 25 and the max is 30. But they need to furlough 80.

In other words, "We at Alaska management want to furlough you."

Actually, they need to furlough 54. But your point is very valid.

 

[Mea25000]

Michael Derchin of FTN Equity Capital Markets has revised his earnings estimates for Q2 and full year 2009, and he now sees AMR and UAL both posting annual losses in excess of $1 billion.
Derchin said the revisions were "to reflect lower than previously expected unit revenues and higher jet fuel prices." He is now expecting jet fuel to cost about $85 a barrel, up from $75 from his previous estimates.
In a report out Tuesday morning, Derchin projects that AMR, parent of American Airlines, will lose $5.20 a share, or just under $1.5 billion. That is significantly worst that the First Call consensus of a $2.25 per-share loss, or his own $2.36 loss before revisions.
For UAL, parent of United Airlines, Derchin predicts an $8.90 per-share loss, or just under $1.3 billion. First Call consensus is sitting at $7.97.
In an interesting note, Derchin sees five of the top nine U.S. carriers losing money, but four of them making money. The five losers collectively would lose $3.85 billion, while the three winners collectively would earn $490 million.
Below is a chart with Derchin's new estimates. The calculations are based on the most recent share counts (diluted) that I could find (net income and shares in millions):
CompanyIncome per shareSharesNet incomeAMR($5.20)280 ($1,456)UAL($8.90)145 ($1,291)US Airways($3.93)132 ($518)Delta($0.39)825 ($322)Continental($2.13)124 ($264)JetBlue$0.20 275 $55 Alaska$2.94 36 $107 Southwest$0.18 740 $133 AirTran$1.41 138 $195
As a side note, the International Air Transport Association said Tuesday that airlines worldwide lost about $3.1 billion in the first quarter, including $574 million among the 22 North American carriers that it included.
"This deterioration was before the recent rise in fuel prices and was due mostly to the fall in revenues, as a sharp fall in yields added to the impact of weak travel and freight volumes," IATA noted



AS is doing fine... 2.94 per share is twice the next best number that is expected at AAI and miles in front of everyone else. Cash and assets this place looks like APPL compared to the rest of this industry. Our management culture here has always been very conservative. I would think it would bee a good time to grow and keep everyone working but that doesn't seem to be the path management is taking.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I would think it would bee a good time to grow and keep everyone working but that doesn't seem to be the path management is taking.

Or at least be in a position to take advantage of other airline's cutbacks. As of 9 am this morning there were 4 (FOUR) F/Os on Reserve in SEA. And they want to furlough MORE guys?

 

[Baze]

This "early out" program is worthless. There won't be any takers.

 

[Old School 737]

This "early out" program is worthless. There won't be any takers.

Probably only a couple would take it but since it won't hit the min 25 I don't think it has a chance.

 

[wscrj]

Probably only a couple would take it but since it won't hit the min 25 I don't think it has a chance.

Which is likely the way "they" planned it.

 

[General Lee]

Which is likely the way "they" planned it.

You never know. We thought very few would take it on the NWA side, and NONE on the DL side (no pension left). It looks like we have 150 takers on the NWA side now, and 7 on the DAL side. Crazy. It wasn't a great deal, especially with the 3 months medical offered. We may get up to 200 total NWA guys taking it in the end, which would be good. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[contrail67]

can't you just adjust block hours to eliminate furloughs?...54 is not that many...just seems like you can save them. Maybe mgmnt knows that 8oK will get 54 capts to go....good luck

 

[QCappy]

can't you just adjust block hours to eliminate furloughs?...54 is not that many...just seems like you can save them. Maybe mgmnt knows that 8oK will get 54 capts to go....good luck

So far the union hasn't even moved on reducing the block hours, and the early out is only for a maximum of 30 guys.

 

[turbodriver]

So far the union hasn't even moved on reducing the block hours, and the early out is only for a maximum of 30 guys.

And the MEC won't move on reducing block hours. They've made that abundantly clear. We furloughees got screwed on our grievance in the last contract, why would they do something now when they can fly 100 hours a month? Let them croak out somewhere over the heartland I say. It'll bring me back that much quicker.....

 

[SRMairlines]

80K annuity works out to be as good as 100K bonus in the begininng... if you want payments spread out over the rest of your life. The tax laws make the annuity more favorable if you plan on living 15 years past retirement. It ends up being worth more than the 100K buyout after only a few years but the key is a long life. Most guys that fly past 60 will have a lower life expectancy due to exposure flying with PO'd FO's. I doubt 25 guys will take it given they only have 2 weeks to make a life decision. I am glad management took their sweet time planning this one.

Questions for MGT:

Why a minimum of 25?

Why offer this plan so late?

Why is the RBBP closed so early?

Why not offer Voluntary Furloughs continuously throughout the Furlough?

MGTs plan: Offer and early out that will fail. Get the Union to cut the blocks so that a buyout and a downgrade/furlough become unnecessary. That is their goal. It is cheapest and offers the greatest flexibility to the way they want to manipulate our lives and their so-called airline.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

And the MEC won't move on reducing block hours. They've made that abundantly clear. We furloughees got screwed on our grievance in the last contract, why would they do something now when they can fly 100 hours a month? Let them croak out somewhere over the heartland I say. It'll bring me back that much quicker.....

Mmmmmm. Young pilots..... Breakfast of champions.

What's the average block up to now? 83 hours? I sure am glad the union did everything they could short of lifting a finger to help us from being furloughed.

 

[Singlecoil]

I would call the union at Alaska a total waste of time, but that would be an insult to flightinfo.com and light beer.

 

[mach none]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

 

[Singlecoil]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

Almost. The pilot group is the union. I wish I was the union, believe me.

 

[turbodriver]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

Yes, WE are the union. All the furloughees and all the future new hires that will soon realize that the ALPA of the past sold us out.

I can't wait for the day we outnumber the rest of you come election time......

 

[Going2Baja]

I was advised today by my capt rep that they have informed the negotiators to see what the company will reduce the lines too. My guess is that the reply will be "nil" and the union will say "well, we tried..." This is by far the worst run airline and lamest ALPA group I have seen in 20 years of flying!!

Baja.

 

[najet]

You never know. We thought very few would take it on the NWA side, and NONE on the DL side (no pension left). It looks like we have 150 takers on the NWA side now, and 7 on the DAL side. Crazy. It wasn't a great deal, especially with the 3 months medical offered. We may get up to 200 total NWA guys taking it in the end, which would be good. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Now, that's funny......

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

Typical response from the blind followers. I'm so tired of these clowns getting so defensive about OUR union saying $hit like, "why don't you volunteer if you don't like how things are done" or "YOU are the union". Well, no $hit Sherlock!
I'm glad that we have a UNION and it's better than not having one I suppose, but it's really not a UNION is it? It's an "Association", just another corporation, where it's run by selfish, self serving, greedy people with too many personal agendas, especially up in National. True, there are those who are there to "serve" but they seem to be the minority fighting a losing battle. All WE ever do is thump our chest, but the backbone is missing. What has ALPA done for the bottom half of the seniority lately? A true UNION is a thing of the past.

Signed,
1 of 199

 

[Chief Pilot]

Typical response from the blind followers. I'm so tired of these clowns getting so defensive about OUR union saying $hit like, "why don't you volunteer if you don't like how things are done" or "YOU are the union". Well, no $hit Sherlock!
I'm glad that we have a UNION and it's better than not having one I suppose, but it's really not a UNION is it? It's an "Association", just another corporation, where it's run by selfish, self serving, greedy people with too many personal agendas, especially up in National. True, there are those who are there to "serve" but they seem to be the minority fighting a losing battle. All WE ever do is thump our chest, but the backbone is missing. What has ALPA done for the bottom half of the seniority lately? A true UNION is a thing of the past.

Signed,
1 of 199

Well said.

And I absolutely agree with turbodriver. The middle seniority folks here had better start coming around and showing some stinking backbone and unity. When they are outnumbered by the guys that are currently being sold out, it will get real ugly for them. Personally, I'd be the first to sign off on decertifying ALPA and going independent. I'd never want to work at a non-union airline, but ALPA national has done nothing but hold this group back.

 

[turbodriver]

Well said.

And I absolutely agree with turbodriver. The middle seniority folks here had better start coming around and showing some stinking backbone and unity. When they are outnumbered by the guys that are currently being sold out, it will get real ugly for them. Personally, I'd be the first to sign off on decertifying ALPA and going independent. I'd never want to work at a non-union airline, but ALPA national has done nothing but hold this group back.

Here's the second vote to decertify ALPA and going independent. The number will get bigger with time.

If the MEC thinks that I will forget about how they screwed me and just brush it under the rug when I get my recall letter (somehow I think that since we'll be so happy to get our jobs back, our memories will be short) they are sorely mistaken. I hope this MEC realizes that they just opened up a BIG can of worms to get their precious short-term raise.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

One more thing for the "we are the union" guys.....
How is that our MEC can't show a little leadership and make tough decisions like, say, the FedEx MEC. Those guys dropped down to 60 hours to save jobs. It was a group effort led by the MEC, unlike our guys saying $hit like "YOU are the UNION" and expecting people to drop down to 75 on our own. Why do we even have a MEC if they can't lead? As we saw by the 84% TA pass rate, this pilot group is 84% sheep. Sheeps need a shepherd and our shepherd is a scare crow.
For those of you who do drop down on your own, my hat is off to you. However, it's a lost cause since your actions don't do squat to save jobs. It has to be a GROUP effort led the MEC. The 84% needs to be told what to do. Don't expect any initiative by this pilot group.
We don't need anymore people in unemployment lines in this screwed up economy. Someone needs to step up and take charge. As much as the corporate world is about "it's just business", they certainly have a moral obligation to exercise their God given assets and talent to do the "right thing" and that includes taking care of their people, IMHO. And no, I'm not even close to getting furloughed but I can only imagine the anxiety and the pain of those who are furloughed and those who are about to get shafted. Ok, I'm off of the soap box.

 

[Fubijaakr]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

 

[QCappy]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

So what you're saying is, "I'm OK with what's going on, becuase it's good for me." Thanks. I hope you will be volunteering at the soup kitchen my family will be attending often.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

Maybe someday Americans will relearn what unity means. (Hint: It's not "I got mine, you might get yours if we don't take it from you first.)