Alaska offerers 80K to retire is it enough?

[turbodriver]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

Yes, WE are the union. All the furloughees and all the future new hires that will soon realize that the ALPA of the past sold us out.

I can't wait for the day we outnumber the rest of you come election time......

 

[Going2Baja]

I was advised today by my capt rep that they have informed the negotiators to see what the company will reduce the lines too. My guess is that the reply will be "nil" and the union will say "well, we tried..." This is by far the worst run airline and lamest ALPA group I have seen in 20 years of flying!!

Baja.

 

[najet]

You never know. We thought very few would take it on the NWA side, and NONE on the DL side (no pension left). It looks like we have 150 takers on the NWA side now, and 7 on the DAL side. Crazy. It wasn't a great deal, especially with the 3 months medical offered. We may get up to 200 total NWA guys taking it in the end, which would be good. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Now, that's funny......

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Nice attitude. You do realise, YOU are the union...Dumb-asses.

Typical response from the blind followers. I'm so tired of these clowns getting so defensive about OUR union saying $hit like, "why don't you volunteer if you don't like how things are done" or "YOU are the union". Well, no $hit Sherlock!
I'm glad that we have a UNION and it's better than not having one I suppose, but it's really not a UNION is it? It's an "Association", just another corporation, where it's run by selfish, self serving, greedy people with too many personal agendas, especially up in National. True, there are those who are there to "serve" but they seem to be the minority fighting a losing battle. All WE ever do is thump our chest, but the backbone is missing. What has ALPA done for the bottom half of the seniority lately? A true UNION is a thing of the past.

Signed,
1 of 199

 

[Chief Pilot]

Typical response from the blind followers. I'm so tired of these clowns getting so defensive about OUR union saying $hit like, "why don't you volunteer if you don't like how things are done" or "YOU are the union". Well, no $hit Sherlock!
I'm glad that we have a UNION and it's better than not having one I suppose, but it's really not a UNION is it? It's an "Association", just another corporation, where it's run by selfish, self serving, greedy people with too many personal agendas, especially up in National. True, there are those who are there to "serve" but they seem to be the minority fighting a losing battle. All WE ever do is thump our chest, but the backbone is missing. What has ALPA done for the bottom half of the seniority lately? A true UNION is a thing of the past.

Signed,
1 of 199

Well said.

And I absolutely agree with turbodriver. The middle seniority folks here had better start coming around and showing some stinking backbone and unity. When they are outnumbered by the guys that are currently being sold out, it will get real ugly for them. Personally, I'd be the first to sign off on decertifying ALPA and going independent. I'd never want to work at a non-union airline, but ALPA national has done nothing but hold this group back.

 

[turbodriver]

Well said.

And I absolutely agree with turbodriver. The middle seniority folks here had better start coming around and showing some stinking backbone and unity. When they are outnumbered by the guys that are currently being sold out, it will get real ugly for them. Personally, I'd be the first to sign off on decertifying ALPA and going independent. I'd never want to work at a non-union airline, but ALPA national has done nothing but hold this group back.

Here's the second vote to decertify ALPA and going independent. The number will get bigger with time.

If the MEC thinks that I will forget about how they screwed me and just brush it under the rug when I get my recall letter (somehow I think that since we'll be so happy to get our jobs back, our memories will be short) they are sorely mistaken. I hope this MEC realizes that they just opened up a BIG can of worms to get their precious short-term raise.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

One more thing for the "we are the union" guys.....
How is that our MEC can't show a little leadership and make tough decisions like, say, the FedEx MEC. Those guys dropped down to 60 hours to save jobs. It was a group effort led by the MEC, unlike our guys saying $hit like "YOU are the UNION" and expecting people to drop down to 75 on our own. Why do we even have a MEC if they can't lead? As we saw by the 84% TA pass rate, this pilot group is 84% sheep. Sheeps need a shepherd and our shepherd is a scare crow.
For those of you who do drop down on your own, my hat is off to you. However, it's a lost cause since your actions don't do squat to save jobs. It has to be a GROUP effort led the MEC. The 84% needs to be told what to do. Don't expect any initiative by this pilot group.
We don't need anymore people in unemployment lines in this screwed up economy. Someone needs to step up and take charge. As much as the corporate world is about "it's just business", they certainly have a moral obligation to exercise their God given assets and talent to do the "right thing" and that includes taking care of their people, IMHO. And no, I'm not even close to getting furloughed but I can only imagine the anxiety and the pain of those who are furloughed and those who are about to get shafted. Ok, I'm off of the soap box.

 

[Fubijaakr]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

 

[QCappy]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

So what you're saying is, "I'm OK with what's going on, becuase it's good for me." Thanks. I hope you will be volunteering at the soup kitchen my family will be attending often.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

For all you "We'll get you when we have more votes!" guys. They used to say that about us B-scalers, too. "When the B-scalers get 51%, you old guys are going to pay."

A funny thing happens on the way to 51%. You get senior, too. Then YOU become one of the "old guys" and THEIR interests become YOUR interests.

Its just something to consider.

Maybe someday Americans will relearn what unity means. (Hint: It's not "I got mine, you might get yours if we don't take it from you first.)

 

[RedRum]

So far the union hasn't even moved on reducing the block hours...

Hmmm

Where have I heard that before??? Isn't the ALPA brotherhood great?

 

[Fubijaakr]

So what you're saying is, "I'm OK with what's going on, becuase it's good for me." Thanks. I hope you will be volunteering at the soup kitchen my family will be attending often.

No. What I'm saying is by the time the 199 get enough votes to make a change, they may NOT want to change. That's how seniority works.

Maybe someday Americans will relearn what unity means. (Hint: It's not "I got mine, you might get yours if we don't take it from you first.)

Perception is reality. Seniority tends to change perception.

 

[sf340flyer]

Most of you guys are truly unbelievable. I can’t believe there is so much misinformation here, oh wait it’s FI. It’s the land of rumors. So I called my rep and got some answers instead of coming on here and assuming. I would ask you to do the same, but no matter what is ever said by your rep, I’m sure you have the right answer and they are wrong.

Okay let’s start:
The 1st 60 furloughed pilots have been screwed by ALPA.

• Has your health care been paid by the active pilots? Yes.
• ALPA didn’t fight to save my job. Not true. Do you have the facts behind the grievance settlement? I bet not, just pick up the phone and ask. There is interesting history on the 23 language from years back (this would have come out in the System Board) and we would not have won anything (my opinion).
• I don’t care about settling, I want my day in court. There isn’t a court, just a System Board. Is getting something now better than nothing on the other side?
  

I got sold out on the new contract.

• The new language says mitigate and the old said prevent.
• Sure sounds worse, until the company comes out and says a furlough of 500, and were are flying 40 hour lines.
• Really, how was that signing bonus? Just ask around to see how other airlines treated their furloughed pilots in a similar situation.

Lines are still at 83, why hasn’t ALPA forced the company to reduce the line values.

• Hmmmm...... This one is hard; I’ve read the new (and old) contract and I can’t find a violation. Oh wait there isn’t one. The COMPANY builds the lines (and they haven’t violated section 24 or 25 from what I could see), not ALPA. The Company decided to furlough, not ALPA. Why don't you send a derogatory email to your BCP and call them out for Alaska not treating you nicely.
  

What is up with this POS EO program?

• ALPA had NO room to negotiate improvements. Why not? You need contract language and we don’t have any that forces a program like this. It’s what “OUR” company put out to prevent downgrades, not furloughs. This is a company problem, not ALPA.
  

Why hasn’t ALPA pushed more guys into the RBBP and VF?

• ALPA has informed the pilots of the programs available, and people just aren’t signing up to help out. I haven’t because I can’t afford to. I can do a month to month for a month, but that doesn’t help out the furloughed guys.
  

Why hasn’t ALPA drop the line average with the new section 23 language?

• The company must agree as well. From what I was told, the company isn’t interested in reducing line guarantee. Has ALPA tried? I don’t know, but it sounds like the NC was told to go and ask. Time will tell.
  

FEDEX MEC dropped the line values to help prevent a furlough.

• Wrong; their management used their contract, and the pilots had NO say so.

So where do we stand. ALPA has enforced the contract (from what I can tell). Many of you have been furloughed, and more are to come. That sucks. Our “management” decided to make the cuts, not ALPA. Our “management” has decided to treat us like s@#t, ALPA can’t change that fact. If everyone in ALPA has a personal agenda, how does “screwing” the furloughed pilots fill someone’s agenda? Bottom line, we don’t have any unity and aren’t acting like a union. Is that our rep’s fault or is our group very self serving (There is still VSA being flown)? The SEA FO Rep is open to be filled in August. Time to put the keyboard down and show up to a meeting for once. I’ll be there (even if I have to call in sick).

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Perception is reality. Seniority tends to change perception.

So do drugs, greed, etc. Pick your rationalization.

The union chose a contract that weakened furlough mitigation and allowed pilots to pick up more hours at premium pay.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Most of you guys are truly unbelievable. I can’t believe there is so much misinformation here, oh wait it’s FI. It’s the land of rumors. So I called my rep and got some answers instead of coming on here and assuming. I would ask you to do the same, but no matter what is ever said by your rep, I’m sure you have the right answer and they are wrong.

Okay let’s start:

The 1st 60 furloughed pilots have been screwed by ALPA.

• Has your health care been paid by the active pilots? Yes.
• ALPA didn’t fight to save my job. Not true. Do you have the facts behind the grievance settlement? I bet not, just pick up the phone and ask. There is interesting history on the 23 language from years back (this would have come out in the System Board) and we would not have won anything (my opinion).
• I don’t care about settling, I want my day in court. There isn’t a court, just a System Board. Is getting something now better than nothing on the other side?
  

I got sold out on the new contract.

• The new language says mitigate and the old said prevent.
• Sure sounds worse, until the company comes out and says a furlough of 500, and were are flying 40 hour lines.
• Really, how was that signing bonus? Just ask around to see how other airlines treated their furloughed pilots in a similar situation.

Lines are still at 83, why hasn’t ALPA forced the company to reduce the line values.

• Hmmmm...... This one is hard; I’ve read the new (and old) contract and I can’t find a violation. Oh wait there isn’t one. The COMPANY builds the lines (and they haven’t violated section 24 or 25 from what I could see), not ALPA. The Company decided to furlough, not ALPA. Why don't you send a derogatory email to your BCP and call them out for Alaska not treating you nicely.
  

What is up with this POS EO program?

• ALPA had NO room to negotiate improvements. Why not? You need contract language and we don’t have any that forces a program like this. It’s what “OUR” company put out to prevent downgrades, not furloughs. This is a company problem, not ALPA.
  

Why hasn’t ALPA pushed more guys into the RBBP and VF?

• ALPA has informed the pilots of the programs available, and people just aren’t signing up to help out. I haven’t because I can’t afford to. I can do a month to month for a month, but that doesn’t help out the furloughed guys.
  

Why hasn’t ALPA drop the line average with the new section 23 language?

• The company must agree as well. From what I was told, the company isn’t interested in reducing line guarantee. Has ALPA tried? I don’t know, but it sounds like the NC was told to go and ask. Time will tell.
  

FEDEX MEC dropped the line values to help prevent a furlough.

• Wrong; their management used their contract, and the pilots had NO say so.

So where do we stand. ALPA has enforced the contract (from what I can tell). Many of you have been furloughed, and more are to come. That sucks. Our “management” decided to make the cuts, not ALPA. Our “management” has decided to treat us like s@#t, ALPA can’t change that fact. If everyone in ALPA has a personal agenda, how does “screwing” the furloughed pilots fill someone’s agenda? Bottom line, we don’t have any unity and aren’t acting like a union. Is that our rep’s fault or is our group very self serving (There is still VSA being flown)? The SEA FO Rep is open to be filled in August. Time to put the keyboard down and show up to a meeting for once. I’ll be there (even if I have to call in sick).

Do you believe everything our MEC and National tell you? Dig a little deeperand get the facts in writing, not by word of mouth from the spin doctors. If it smells like $hit, tastes like $hit, and feels like $hit, then it IS $HIT! We need a better check & balance system. You're right. I'll layoff the keyboard. I'm tired of typing.

 

[QCappy]

Flight Attendant furlough for the fall has been cancelled!!!

More info to come.

 

[8v8ter]

Flight Attendant furlough for the fall has been cancelled!!!

More info to come.

Credible source? If true, sounds great!!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

That's good news.

 

[check6]

QX Buyout

Alaska offerers 80K to retire! Is it enough to get the min 25 required to mitigate more layoffs? I don't think they will get enough but What The F Do I No?

The QX buyout a year ago was 100k for the old guys. And I thought management was cheap then!

 

[sf340flyer]

Flight Attendant furlough for the fall has been cancelled!!!

More info to come.

Actually they had enough people to sign up for VF to mitigate the involuntary furlough.