Takeoff Mins/Pinnacle Ops Specs

[Metro752]

My first thought was, maybe they were delayed, or canceled carrying pax, and blasted off 91 to repo the plane.

 

[EL10]

Takeoff Minimums
OPS Spec: C056

The RVR reports, when available for a specific runway, are controlling for all operations on that runway. Other runways at the same airport which do not have RVR reporting equipment are controlled by the reported visibility.

The takeoff is governed only by visibility minimum. If a ceiling requirement is specified for takeoff, it too is controlling.

Takeoff minimums are specified on the airport plan view page (10-9, 11-1, etc., AOI and RAR in LIDO) or supplemental data pages (10-7, CCI, etc.) of the Route Manual. If a newly commissioned facilities meet the specifications of the required minimums may be used prior to the Route Manual pages being updated.

Lower Than Standard Minimums
OPS Spec C078

When takeoff minimums are not published for a particular runway or airport, standard minimums and any lower than standard takeoff minimums authorized in operations specifications are authorized.

 

[jehtplane]

Takeoff Minimums
OPS Spec: C056

The RVR reports, when available for a specific runway, are controlling for all operations on that runway. Other runways at the same airport which do not have RVR reporting equipment are controlled by the reported visibility.

The takeoff is governed only by visibility minimum. If a ceiling requirement is specified for takeoff, it too is controlling.

Takeoff minimums are specified on the airport plan view page (10-9, 11-1, etc., AOI and RAR in LIDO) or supplemental data pages (10-7, CCI, etc.) of the Route Manual. If a newly commissioned facilities meet the specifications of the required minimums may be used prior to the Route Manual pages being updated.

Lower Than Standard Minimums
OPS Spec C078

When takeoff minimums are not published for a particular runway or airport, standard minimums and any lower than standard takeoff minimums authorized in operations specifications are authorized.

Thank you...

 

[Scapegoat]

People, the back of the 10-9 is NOT CONTROLLING for airlines! Period. Please read the 121 reg that was posted earlier in this thread. You must look at what you are authorized to do (based on ops specs). Ops specs are issued based on training at your company. I know we cant use certain Cat 2 apchs that use the MM for the DH or ones that use barometric pressure, though they are listed as 1200' RVR Cat 2's. We also cant use the CAT 2 in BOI because of the apch lights that it has. We need ALSF 1 or 2's.
If you think that Jepps are controlling then you are doing your company a disservice, (unless you enjoy making the extra $$ waiting for RVR's to go up!) Please call your training department and talk to one of your in-house sim instructors. They will tell you that ops specs dictate when you can takeoff, not Jeppesen.
I have to stop reading this thread, its too irritating for a Saturday afternoon. Have a good weekend.

 

[ChickenSled]

Ok here we go.

Flights that departed in the morning on 2/26 from SBN.

FLG2941 CRJ2 Detroit Metro Wayne Co (KDTW) Thu 08:34 EST Thu 09:09 EST Thu 09:00 EST
N930MC BE9L (CY72) Thu 08:17 EST Thu 14:33 GMT Thu 14:23 GMT
FLG2890 CRJ2 Minneapolis/St Paul Intl (KMSP) Thu 07:32 EST Thu 07:37 CST Thu 07:37 CST
CHQ6045 E145 N Kentucky Intl (KCVG) Thu 06:47 EST Thu 07:27 EST Thu 07:21 EST
FLG2354 CRJ2 Detroit Metro Wayne Co (KDTW) Thu 06:42 EST Thu 07:17 EST Thu 07:08 EST
ASQ5303 CRJ2 Hartsfield-Jackson Intl (KATL) Thu 06:41 EST Thu 08:13 EST Thu 08:11 EST
UCA8732 DH8B Cleveland-Hopkins Intl (KCLE) Thu 06:08 EST Thu 07:07 EST Thu 06:54 EST



Here is your SBN weather for 2/26 in the morning....

KSBN 260954Z 00000KT 1/4SM FZFG VV001 M03/M03 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP209 T10281033
KSBN 261054Z 00000KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M03/M03 A3014
KSBN 261154Z 11003KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M01/M02 A3013 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/4 SLP210 T10111017 11006 21033 50003
KSBN 261254Z 10003KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M01/M01 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP206 T10111011
KSBN 261354Z 11005KT 1/8SM FZFG VV001 M01/M01 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP205 T10061006

TapitLight, your profile says you fly a CRJ, so I'm assuming you were in the ASA plane.

According to Flight Aware, you were the second one to leave that morning, right after Commutair.

Unless you were in N930NC. If so, why not mention that you saw CHQ take off as well?

Something isn't adding up.

 

[gunfyter]

OpSpecs are controlling?

What does your OpSpecs say you need for 1000 RVR? Runway Facilities Required?

Mine says 2 RVRS NOT just one. Actually 3 RVRs but one may be not available.

This is why the Jepps have RVR-1600 for the minimums at SBN. According to AIRNAV.com RW 27L only has ONE RVR.

 

[regionalcap]

People, the back of the 10-9 is NOT CONTROLLING for airlines! Period. Please read the 121 reg that was posted earlier in this thread. You must look at what you are authorized to do (based on ops specs). Ops specs are issued based on training at your company. I know we cant use certain Cat 2 apchs that use the MM for the DH or ones that use barometric pressure, though they are listed as 1200' RVR Cat 2's. We also cant use the CAT 2 in BOI because of the apch lights that it has. We need ALSF 1 or 2's.
If you think that Jepps are controlling then you are doing your company a disservice, (unless you enjoy making the extra $$ waiting for RVR's to go up!) Please call your training department and talk to one of your in-house sim instructors. They will tell you that ops specs dictate when you can takeoff, not Jeppesen.
I have to stop reading this thread, its too irritating for a Saturday afternoon. Have a good weekend.

This is what the Delta manual says.

"Only apply takeoff minima as low as published on the airport page unless
specifically authorized lower by NOTAM or flight plan remark."

Your examples are misleading. You are referring to something more restrictive to Jepps.

 

[Allen1]

Non 121 crews and equipment.

Dude you're so wrong it's not even funny. Hope I don't have to ride on the back of your airplane. your understanding is dead wrong. You can only reduce if the chart allows those minimums. Your statement about the back of the chart being just for part 91 is flat out scary!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

6 pages and still no definitive answer. C'mon guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Allen1]

People, the back of the 10-9 is NOT CONTROLLING for airlines! Period. Please read the 121 reg that was posted earlier in this thread. You must look at what you are authorized to do (based on ops specs). Ops specs are issued based on training at your company. I know we cant use certain Cat 2 apchs that use the MM for the DH or ones that use barometric pressure, though they are listed as 1200' RVR Cat 2's. We also cant use the CAT 2 in BOI because of the apch lights that it has. We need ALSF 1 or 2's.
If you think that Jepps are controlling then you are doing your company a disservice, (unless you enjoy making the extra $$ waiting for RVR's to go up!) Please call your training department and talk to one of your in-house sim instructors. They will tell you that ops specs dictate when you can takeoff, not Jeppesen.
I have to stop reading this thread, its too irritating for a Saturday afternoon. Have a good weekend.

Another person who is wrong you're not reading the ops spec right.

 

[dustrpilot]

.....

 

[viper548]

Here's what skywest has:
-10-9 is only controling when published takeoff mins are higher than standard takeoff mins (i.e. 2sm or if a minimum ceiling is listed, 300-1)

-1600 or 1/4sm= HIRL, CL, RCLM or adequate visual reference
-1200/1200/1000, Day=RCLM or HIRL or CL
Night= HIRL or CL
-1000/1000/1000 a) CL, or
b) HIRL and RCLM
-600/600/600, HIRL and CL

The 10-9 at SBN shows the takeoff mins are standard, so we are able to use lower than standard mins.
27L has HIRL but no CL. If the RCLM was visable (not covered in snow) takeoff mins would be 1000/1000/1000

-For operations below 1600 RVR a minimum of 2 RVR reporting systems are required.

If there are at least 2 RVR reporting systems the takeoff mins would be 1000/1000/1000 (or whichever 2 they have)
If there is only 1 RVR reporting system the mins would be 1600 RVR

Our mins are almost always what the back of the 10-9 says but there are a few exceptions out there

 

[gunfyter]

6 pages and still no definitive answer. C'mon guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a definitive answer...

OpSpecs require at least 2 working RVRs for less than 1600RVR takeoff mins.

SBN RW 27L has ONLY ONE RVR....

1000 RVR takeoffs are not allowed.

 

[viper548]

If you're the only one taking off or landing due to weather it would be prudent to figure out why

 

[timmay]

Jepps are trying to do the work for you. In order to (as stated numerous times before) reduce below 1600 RVR requires at least two working RVRs therefore you cant reduce below that no matter what.