Takeoff Mins/Pinnacle Ops Specs

[TapitLight]

Tower said

RVR 27L 1000'

 

[JustaNumber]

I have to say I'm a little bit dumbfounded that some of
you folks think jepps are controlling. The only time they will be is if the takeoff mins are greater than standard, in that case I don't belive you can use reduced mins. I strongly encourage those of you who think jepps control at all times to clarify your understanding with your d.o. or a check airman.

Your logic is illogical. What you are saying is that if the FAA surveyed an airport and found, I don't know, a big obstacle right off the end of the runway that you could only see right at one mile visibility, it would be impossible for them to limit the allowable takeoff visibility to exactly standard, and no less? It appears to me that that is the purpose of having individually surveyed runway T/O mins published, in addition to your company's ops spec allowable mins.

 

[jehtplane]

Wow. It is almost disturbing the amount of interpretations going on. Guys, 121 op specs give you the authorization to use less than standard t/o mins. ie 5000/1. If tower is reporting 1000 rvr, the Jepp plate says 1600rvr, your op specs say 500rvr, YOU ARE NOT LEGAL TO DEPART. Your op spec which authorized you to depart with rvr down to 500 does not mean you can do that at any airport. The airport also has to have authorization down to 500 rvr. It is your op specs or published, what ever is greater.

 

[DoinTime]

Dointime,

You're stuck on this chart thing. If as the original post stated, the TOWER gave an RVR report, THEN IT IS AVAILABLE, and you have to abide by it. It doesn't have anything to do with who publishes your charts.

The LIDO charts do not have an RVR requirement for take off on rwy 27 in SBN. They do have a requirement for 1/4 mile tower visibility though. This makes tower visibility controlling for people operating with LIDO charts on this runway.

 

[TapitLight]

Yes, this is now making more sense!

 

[TapitLight]

Ok LIDO has a tower vis requirement,

there was never any "tower visiblity" reported that morning only an ATIS reported 1/8 sm vis and an RVR reported at 1000'.

The vis was never up to 1/4 sm for the Pinnacle departures....

 

[DoinTime]

Ok LIDO has a tower vis requirement,

there was never any "tower visiblity" reported that morning only an ATIS reported 1/8 sm vis and an RVR reported at 1000'.

Tower vis is the vis reported on the ATIS. It does not have to be recorded on the ATIS to be the official visibility. A spot check on visibility is all that is required for t/o. Here is the way it usually goes at the end of the runway:

flagship - tower....whats the current visibility?

tower - currently 1/8 mile....what do you need?

flagship - we need 1/4 mile.

tower - visibility is now 1/4 mile...cleared for takeoff.

flagship - cleared for takeoff...have a nice day.

The vis was never up to 1/4 sm for the Pinnacle departures....

Did you follow the flight on all the frequencies on the way out? Tower can provided a momentary report that would make the departure legal.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Ok LIDO has a tower vis requirement,

there was never any "tower visiblity" reported that morning only an ATIS reported 1/8 sm vis and an RVR reported at 1000'.

The vis was never up to 1/4 sm for the Pinnacle departures....

Did you listen to all ground/tower communications? If the tower says 1/4 then it's 1/4.

 

[shelton]

The original post said that the PCL flight stated it needed 1000 RVR. I assume this meant that he was listening to ground/tower. Which, in this case, I would tend to believe considering they were departing when he thought he could not. I would be tempted to listen too.

So either they have a different LIDO chart or they don't understand the rqmts for 1000 RVR takeoff. I said before, SBN only has TDZ RVR. 1000 RVR takeoffs require another RVR report.

Is it possible that they were just wrong?

 

[DoinTime]

Is it possible that they were just wrong?

There are a lot of possibilities. The only thing that is clear is that any talk about required RVR for departure on rwy 27 in SBN in a Pinnacle cockpit is dead wrong from the start.