DL CRJs

[FBN0223]

From Richard, "We have too many RJs." More specifically, I believe the 50 seat CRJ was his reference. To the best of my knowledge, Mesaba, Pinnacle, Skywest, Comair, and ASA are the operators who fly CRJs under the Delta/NW brand. CRJ reduction is in the works. Anyone have any information on the reduction percentages? Which regional would be most effected? Perhaps eliminated completely?

Hopefully, we will see an increase in DC-9 flying and at least some recapturing of what were at one time mainline DL/NW routes, especially on the longer segments.

The May APA/Flying Bulletin due out in a few days should give some initial indication of the increase in DC-9/A320 flying for the year.

 

[another cfii]

I would love more than anything to keep the DC9 flying much longer, and also bring back the 75/76 flying that we lost, but everything our new company does will be driven by market demand, oil prices, and the world economy.

If they decide the 'lil RJ brings in more cash than a DC9/md88 on a route, then they'll keep'em longer, it's all a function of mathematical formulae they use to maximize profits, and hopefully we'll keep our jobs as well. I think the oil prices is the sole reason for now why the 50 seaters aren't falling out of the sky. Those on the 4th floor aren't hesitate to pull the trigger when market condition changes.

 

[contrail67]

From Richard, "We have too many RJs." More specifically, I believe the 50 seat CRJ was his reference. To the best of my knowledge, Mesaba, Pinnacle, Skywest, Comair, and ASA are the operators who fly CRJs under the Delta/NW brand. CRJ reduction is in the works. Anyone have any information on the reduction percentages? Which regional would be most effected? Perhaps eliminated completely?

Hopefully, we will see an increase in DC-9 flying and at least some recapturing of what were at one time mainline DL/NW routes, especially on the longer segments.

The May APA/Flying Bulletin due out in a few days should give some initial indication of the increase in DC-9/A320 flying for the year.

when did he make this statement?..just curious how recent it was.

 

[FBN0223]

when did he make this statement?..just curious how recent it was.

Last week

 

[FDJ2]

Last week

I heard him say we had 75-100 too many RJs last March. At the time I thought his hands were tied with the DCI contracts and Delta would not be able to dump the excess RJ lift. I was wrong. In 2008 DAL dumped approximately 100 RJs from the system. I expect this will be a long term trend that will continue. RJ lift will be consolidated into 70/76 seaters, DC-9s and MD88s.

 

[jetflier]

Many cities that were previously flown by mainline were transferred to the RJ fleet over the past few years. So that flying is being returned back to the mainline jets

 

[hockeypilot44]

when did he make this statement?..just curious how recent it was.

They are working on getting us to relieve scope again. They want to replace all of the 50-seaters with CRJ900's and E-175's. Don't kid yourselves guys. It took them years to erode our profession with lower paying labor. They are not going to go in the other direction voluntarily.

 

[Fly4hire]

I heard him say we had 75-100 too many RJs last March. At the time I thought his hands were tied with the DCI contracts and Delta would not be able to dump the excess RJ lift. I was wrong. In 2008 DAL dumped approximately 100 RJs from the system. I expect this will be a long term trend that will continue. RJ lift will be consolidated into 70/76 seaters, DC-9s and MD88s.

And with RA and Bastian saying up at the ANC pilot meeting that neither Boeing nor Airbus desire to produce a 100 seat aircraft, where does that leave us when the DC9's (and 88's) do eventually time out?

We have to guard against a Trojan horse of relief for additional 76 seat flying coming to us under the guise of temporary gains in mainline flying.

We must have a long term plan and commitment that whatever form this flying eventually takes, be it CRJ900's or E175/195 or the Bombardier 100 seater, that all 70 seat plus flying is flown by mainline pilots. No more Scope relief, ever.

 

[~~~^~~~]

How about taking it back?

Lets start by getting a single list with Compass. From there, the capture of the E170 flying is one (non ALPA) contract away.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Those E series jets are mainline jets. This is where they should be. I am sure we will get to find out if we have a back bone on this issue with mid-term contract gains or in 2012. If we give them those, (Below 100 seats) you can kiss all narrow body lift bye bye. (Sans some 757 and 737 lift)

They dumped 100 RJ's last year and it was their intention to dump another 100 in 09. With fuel prices way down, It is probably in their best interest to keep some of those flying and park the 757's. They are doing this. It keeps demand out of the market.
Now when demand returns you will see the 757's go back to their old routes and the 88 and 9 take the flying of the DCI carriers.
See, many of these contracts are coming up on year three. What is stipulated is that the specific carrier needs to be in the bottom half of all DCI operators in tems of cost. Not real hard to do since most the wholly owneds are the most expensive.
Now two years down the road, in year five of the respective DCI contracts, each respective carrier needs to be in the bottom two in terms of overall cost.
What this means is that only two operators will be in compliance with this part of the contract. It will allow DAL to terminate said contract. It is an out for Momma Delta.
Now we also have metric minimiums in each contract. If those are not met, flying can and has been pulled down.
With the fuel prices dropping it may allow DAL not to void contracts but instead let them take their normal course. Either way the way we pay the DCI carriers is changing. And the amount of service that is operated by a third party should change to more mainline lift.
If you want to be a global airline you need to give that type of service. I am sure that when RA states it is seamless travel between mainline and DCI, he knows that is a joke. The are working very hard for a uniform branded image. DCI has always had issues with that.

(I am not beating up on DCI pilots, just their companies. The airplanes are flown, for the most part, as porfessionally as mainline, so do not start that argument)

 

[Fly4hire]

How about taking it back?

Lets start by getting a single list with Compass. From there, the capture of the E170 flying is one (non ALPA) contract away.

Concur. The CPZ pilots would be ecstatic to have a number at the bottom of the DAL list. Does our MEC have the vision to protect and recapture this flying?

Why the non-ALPA barb?

 

[Ridgeback]

The ignorance of most pilots view on scope amazes me. Reading this board most feel the E170 is a mainline airplane and somehow the Crj900 is not. Yet both seat 76 passengers and were designed for the same mission. The mentality is and always has been my airplane is bigger than yours so I somehow am more deserving of an easy way into Delta, United, ect.
So mainline pilots want the flying back, yet have never been willing as a group to do what it takes to get it back. Instead argue that a e170 is a mainline aircraft and a crj is not???? Well I hope mainline unions can recapture all the RJ flying. Oh yes one other questions, If you do somehow get that flying back, I hope you'll be smart enough to bring on large turboprops as well. I think you should read up on the Q400 and Atr72-600. Because I believe you won't have to worry about a crj900 or e? replacing your flying, these are the true threats to "your" regional flying...But I would be that much like in the 90's your ego's were bigger that a 50 seat RJ, this time around I'm sure they are way bigger than any turboprop....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I take your 900 and stick it on mainline. Fact is that due to its design it has some inherent issues. But that airplane is big enough to be over here too. The Fact is that the CRJ series was not built with mainline in mind. The E-series was as will the C-series.

 

[767/757]

Concur. The CPZ pilots would be ecstatic to have a number at the bottom of the DAL list. Does our MEC have the vision to protect and recapture this flying?

Question - Compass pilots were under the NWA MEC, what now? Are they also under the new larger DAL MEC?

 

[FBN0223]

The ignorance of most pilots view on scope amazes me. Reading this board most feel the E170 is a mainline airplane and somehow the Crj900 is not. Yet both seat 76 passengers and were designed for the same mission. The mentality is and always has been my airplane is bigger than yours so I somehow am more deserving of an easy way into Delta, United, ect.
So mainline pilots want the flying back, yet have never been willing as a group to do what it takes to get it back. Instead argue that a e170 is a mainline aircraft and a crj is not???? Well I hope mainline unions can recapture all the RJ flying. Oh yes one other questions, If you do somehow get that flying back, I hope you'll be smart enough to bring on large turboprops as well. I think you should read up on the Q400 and Atr72-600. Because I believe you won't have to worry about a crj900 or e? replacing your flying, these are the true threats to "your" regional flying...But I would be that much like in the 90's your ego's were bigger that a 50 seat RJ, this time around I'm sure they are way bigger than any turboprop....

If the aircraft says Delta on the side, it should be flown by Delta pilots. We should start with the larger EMB175s and CRJ900s and work our way down.

 

[dragon]

If the aircraft says Delta on the side, it should be flown by Delta pilots. We should start with the larger EMB175s and CRJ900s and work our way down.

Agreed, it should be flown, maintained, dispatched etc by DAL employees. Like it or not, the pax don't see the word 'connection'. They blame us for the things that go wrong anyway so let's bring the whole enchilada under our roof.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I would assume that the CPZ MEC is not part of DAL. I have not heard of them breaking it off.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Concur. The CPZ pilots would be ecstatic to have a number at the bottom of the DAL list. Does our MEC have the vision to protect and recapture this flying?

Question - Compass pilots were under the NWA MEC, what now? Are they also under the new larger DAL MEC?

Tell you what - Hell's gonna break loose if CPZ pilots get "stapled" onto any mainline list. There's no reason that a fuselage diameter difference between the CRJ9 and the E170 entitle anyone to anything. CPZ is still a regional, and anyone's chances of moving on to mainline should be strictly a result of seniority (via flow) or outside interview. I've heard a few nasty rumors of a few, very junior CPZ pilots with an extremely overinflated sense of entitlement to DAL mainline seats. I hope the rumors are not true.

MM

 

[Browntothebone]

Tell you what - Hell's gonna break loose if CPZ pilots get "stapled" onto any mainline list. There's no reason that a fuselage diameter difference between the CRJ9 and the E170 entitle anyone to anything. CPZ is still a regional, and anyone's chances of moving on to mainline should be strictly a result of seniority (via flow) or outside interview. I've heard a few nasty rumors of a few, very junior CPZ pilots with an extremely overinflated sense of entitlement to DAL mainline seats. I hope the rumors are not true.




MM

How does that compare to other regionals with overinflated senses of entitlement to mainline seats?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It would have nothing to do with airplane size. It has to do with the fact that we share the same MEC. No other regional has that. Not even OH. That said. I am all for putting every DCI carrier on the mainline list. I do not see that as probable.
CPZ has a true shot. We share the same MEC and we have a established flow where we can take all of their seats to date. It truly has the best chance.

Now most regionals would not go along with being stapled to mainline. Too many 20 year guys that would want their seniority and go to the left seat of at 767. I heard it in 99 when DAL bought ASA. That would need to be worked out. Argue career expectations et al. DOH would never work to bring you on. What you would do at your level is a different sitiuation since in effect all RJ's pay about the same.