DL CRJs

[JoeMerchant]

I took a hit went to a major, and knew that there was not going to be DOH et al of a Majors and their regional airlines. I came to a major. So I often wonder why someone at the regional level would expect to leapfrong anyone at a major.

1. I don't think there will be a single list amongst mainline and regionals.....and if there is I guarantee you it would never be DOH....Why do you insist on mis-representing this position?

2. I would never expect leapfrogging a mainline pilot as long as they respect my position on the equipment we operate.....Why would a mainline pilot expect to bump a regional pilot out of their seat?

That status quo of starting on the bottom coming to a major has never changed. Putting(Stapeling) you to a bottom of the list only increases your career expectations.

Do you realise that there are now Delta pilots who hired onto the Metroliner....A 19 seat turboprop....

What was their "career expectation"?

Furthermore, many RJ drivers are worried about a mainline guy taking their seat .Think of this for a second. A thrid year 767 FO makes over 96 an hr doing a lot less ups and downs than an RJ CA. Even a third year 88 FO makes 83.00 an hr. Once again, there is no way that they would down bid unless it was manadatory. There is little risk of someone like me going back to a job I willingly left.

There is little risk of you bidding back...However...

1. If you were to be furloughed....I bet you would like to come back in at the top of ASA/Mesaba/CMR etc. vs. hitting the street.

2. While you may not willingly bid back...Many in ATL would prefer being a senior ASA pilot to MD88 reserve in JFK.....

 

[Browntothebone]

Point of clarification:

I only want "super seniority" on a mainline list IF the mainline pilots insist on "super seniority" on the regional list.....I have no problem with a staple to the bottom of mainline equipment IF the mainline pilots do the same.....The double standard won't fly...

I just had a CPT lesson with one of our RJ instructors who left ASA many years ago to go to Eastern and then PanAm....After the demise of those two "real jobs"...he returned to ASA and is in his late 50s now....To say his career is worth less than a 27 year old Delta new-hire speaks volumes as to the problem we have in solving this issue.....

Us senior regional "lifers" can work together.....But we will not taken advantage of....

Why are you "really" a regional lifer?

 

[Browntothebone]

1. I don't think there will be a single list amongst mainline and regionals.....and if there is I guarantee you it would never be DOH....Why do you insist on mis-representing this position?

2. I would never expect leapfrogging a mainline pilot as long as they respect my position on the equipment we operate.....Why would a mainline pilot expect to bump a regional pilot out of their seat?





Do you realise that there are now Delta pilots who hired onto the Metroliner....A 19 seat turboprop....

What was their "career expectation"?



There is little risk of you bidding back...However...

1. If you were to be furloughed....I bet you would like to come back in at the top of ASA/Mesaba/CMR etc. vs. hitting the street.

2. While you may not willingly bid back...Many in ATL would prefer being a senior ASA pilot to MD88 reserve in JFK.....

What about the military guys at mainline having to see their military comrades having to start their "mainline" career in the right seat of an RJ. Now if you fence the RJ pilots permanently so that the mainline can't flow back and bump you out of your seats in exchange for allowing a military guy to start out at mainline then their might be some common ground to get a single list.

 

[flap operator]

AC - you missed my point. I see the value of a mainline job. I wish there were more of them. I want a mainline job job someday, fair and square. I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky. In the end, no matter the size of aircraft, we all do the same thing. I truly only want to work for an airline that can control its destiny and I have no desire to leapfrog anyone to get there and that me is the greatest thing about working at a mainline.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve. We do the same job AS professionally, not almost as professionally as you all do. Why the constant disrespect? Mainline made this bed. Again... I'm just doing what I can to climb the ladder. I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

 

[Browntothebone]

AC - you missed my point. I see the value of a mainline job. I wish there were more of them. I want a mainline job job someday, fair and square. I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky. In the end, no matter the size of aircraft, we all do the same thing. I truly only want to work for an airline that can control its destiny and I have no desire to leapfrog anyone to get there and that me is the greatest thing about working at a mainline.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve. We do the same job AS professionally, not almost as professionally as you all do. Why the constant disrespect? Mainline made this bed. Again... I'm just doing what I can to climb the ladder. I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

The early 20-something 300hr wonder who thinks this "job" is "cool" and doesn't care how much (or little) he gets paid and the mid-life career changer, who made good money in the real world and now wants to be an airline pilot for his "hobby".

 

[flap operator]

Everybody has to start somewhere right? This industry is not unfamiliar with lower time pilots. Even the majors are littered with guys who were lucky to get hired at a young age with low time. What do you expect aspiring pilots to do?

 

[PuffDriver]

AC - you missed my point. I see the value of a mainline job. I wish there were more of them. I want a mainline job job someday, fair and square. I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky. In the end, no matter the size of aircraft, we all do the same thing. I truly only want to work for an airline that can control its destiny and I have no desire to leapfrog anyone to get there and that me is the greatest thing about working at a mainline.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve. We do the same job AS professionally, not almost as professionally as you all do. Why the constant disrespect? Mainline made this bed. Again... I'm just doing what I can to climb the ladder. I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

Whatever.

Add another to the Joe Merchant 2264J list.
:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

I don't get my love!!!!!!!!

 

[CptOver]

The early 20-something 300hr wonder who thinks this "job" is "cool" and doesn't care how much (or little) he gets paid and the mid-life career changer, who made good money in the real world and now wants to be an airline pilot for his "hobby".

Put the two together and it sounds like some low time military pilots I know, and they want to leapfrog too.

Before you hate, I'm a veteran too. Just didn't fly.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve.

I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

Everybody has to start somewhere right? This industry is not unfamiliar with lower time pilots. Even the majors are littered with guys who were lucky to get hired at a young age with low time. What do you expect aspiring pilots to do?

Dr. Fins prescribes a read of "Fate is the Hunter" "SkyGods" or any of the other autobiographical writings of pilots who threw their old worn out hat in the dustbin on the mandated day.

You will be happier when you stop measuring your value based on the respect of your peers. There will always be FO's that think they should be Captain instead of you, Line Check Airmen who get off on proving they know more than anyone else in the room, Management Pilots, pilots at up and coming airlines who think they're smarter because they have two year upgrades, etc ...

If a mainline FO sneers from across the Terminal, it might be the guy has a cold, or isn't wearing his glasses and is trying to squint his way back to 20/20 (happens as you get older and many pilots only take their glasses out then they need them to fly). Or, he might think your regional airline is the reason why he has a two leg commute to reserve on a smaller jet. In any event, just let it roll off your back, it ain't no big deal. What matters is that you are happy with your actions. Be friendly and show respect to others, even the person pushing the cleaning cart.

Don't think "respect" will carry the day for anyone. Even Capt. Sullenburger has folks digging through his school records looking for bad news to report.

What will bring this profession together is when the majority of pilots realize it is in their collective best interest to work together to increase compensation and job security.

This Delta / NWA deal serves as a good example. It isn't about respect as much as it is about the collective interest in self preservation and advancement.

 

[labbats]

Fin, stop making sense. While I agree with everything you said, these majors vs. regional threads are designed to sputter out into a pis sing contest.

I'm anxiously waiting for more flamebait from Browntothebone. I'm also doing advanced calculus for fun.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Labbats:

Thanks - after years of getting blown off by the mainline pilots with the courtesy "hat nod" I changed uniforms. Now I get sneered at by the regional guys while providing the same friendly tip of the cap. It is probably because I look like the Pan Am Captain in "Catch me if you can" and no one wants to be embarrassed by association with an airport version of "Smiling Bob."

 

[FDJ2]

The RJDC just reported it. It was Woerth and/or Moak who said it in the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

That's probably where Gumby read it.

Well if the AJC said it, it must be true. Are you sure Moak/Woerth said they received a credit?

 

[Texx]

What about the military guys at mainline having to see their military comrades having to start their "mainline" career in the right seat of an RJ. Now if you fence the RJ pilots permanently so that the mainline can't flow back and bump you out of your seats in exchange for allowing a military guy to start out at mainline then their might be some common ground to get a single list.

And what happens when a "mainline" pilot has a kid at a regional and has plenty of time as PIC. Does his or her "mainline" parent have the responsiblilty to try to help their child on at that mainline OR does their MIL "comrade" have priority?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

People who demand respect rarely get it, but those who command it rarely ask for it.

I think there are a lot of great regional guys, it is a few bad apples, as there are at the majors that give many in each respective group a bad name.
Think about this the next time you want to go off about some pilot or group.
Be a consummate professional and you will get the respect you desire, but not by demanding it.

 

[Schwanker]

Schwanker... I think you've got your timeline wrong. Mesaba didn't have a flow thru until sometime after we exited Ch11 as a wholly owned subsidiary. The 900s were already destined to XJ and the 175s destined to Compass. So how could we (XJ pilots) have not played ball, when there wasn't a ball in play, until well after the game started?

You mainliners are amazing. Especially those of you who were most recently at a regional. Picking and choosing the flying that is important to you and worthy of being scoped is incredible. That proves that you're willing to take it back, but only at a certain price. Yet, complain the whole time about what the company is doing by wanting scope relief and how they take advantage of WHAT YOU LET THEM HAVE. I'm so SICK of mainliners getting on my plane and giving me lip about my existence in the NW organization, all the while letting me get him home. The snarky, unprofessional and rude comments are out of this world.

Someone else mentioned it and I'll mention it again. If you're going to take it back... take it ALL back. That includes small turbo prop flying AND the more threatening LARE turboprop flying. Or is that flying not worthy?

I'm all for more jobs at mainline. I'd like to be there someday. But until mainline is willing to be in the drivers seat and take it ALL back, get off my back for trying to make a living and move up the food chain.

Flap,
I'm not on your back at all. The timeline I was talking about was PRE-Compass. Mainline had scope. To give it up, mainline ALPA wanted furloughs to have first rights on these larger jets. MSA MEC didn't want to give all 76 seat flying to furloughs (won't give "super-seniority"). Mainline was holding the cards and found a way to ensure "super-seniority" on the 76 seat jets for its furloughees via CPZ. I have complete respect for the MSA pilots and understand flowthru-flowback is a tough sell during the flowback period. Given this, CPZ was where the scope relief was granted. There would have been a mutiny at mainline to give up scope while your guys were hitting the streets. It was a tough period for all.

Schwanker