DL CRJs

[Nindiri]

What is regaining "RJ" flying worth to Delta pilots?

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

$600,000,000.00

 

[CptMurf]

Anyone else read the details regarding flow-downs. Just Compass right?

Mesaba also. 13 people flowed up, which opens 13 spots for people to flow down into.

MM is upset because there are people here at XJ that have been trying to get on with NW (DAL w/NW domiciles) for not years, but decades. More senior to 9E, more senior to CPZ, and most likely more senior to the majority of DCI carriers. To staple CPZ would be a disservice to all that have been working in traditional ways to work at NW/DAL. I understand CPZ's claim, due to the one union, but then again aren't we all one union. Yet another testiment to why we need a national seniority list.

 

[CptMurf]

Also retaking the 34 seat Saab flying should be a goal but it's definitely not where we would start. Once again, in recapturing some of our flying, we would start where the money is. This is on the larger aircraft(EMBs and CRJ-900).

The Saab CASM is much better than either of these airframes. The Saabs a money-maker, always has been.

With the exception of EAS cities, I parked many a Saab right next to a DC9 everyday. Most DC9 cities are/were covered by multiple fleet types.

 

[Monster Buck]

Deleted.

 

[Schwanker]

Mesaba also. 13 people flowed up, which opens 13 spots for people to flow down into.

MM is upset because there are people here at XJ that have been trying to get on with NW (DAL w/NW domiciles) for not years, but decades. More senior to 9E, more senior to CPZ, and most likely more senior to the majority of DCI carriers. To staple CPZ would be a disservice to all that have been working in traditional ways to work at NW/DAL. I understand CPZ's claim, due to the one union, but then again aren't we all one union. Yet another testiment to why we need a national seniority list.

It was MSA's unwillingness to work with NWA/NWA ALPA which forced the creation of CPZ. NWA would have happily placed the 175's on the MSA certificate if they had scope relief from NWA ALPA. NWA ALPA wouldn't give it because MSA ALPA wouldn't sign off on unlimited flowback to these seats. Thus, CPZ was created. NWA ALPA allowed the scope relief being NWA pilots had 100% flowback rights to these seats. MSA wanted the jets with no risk. CPZ pilots stepped up knowing the risks. This is why they are in a better position to be absorbed by mainline than MSA. (WARNING...next opinion only--shared by many) MSA pilots were short sighted as they wanted all the 76 seat flying for themselves if they got the jets--wouldn't allow for unlimited flowback.

There are great threads from 2005(?) on this very subject if anyone cares to do the digging.

Schwanker

 

[Monster Buck]

It was MSA's unwillingness to work with NWA/NWA ALPA which forced the creation of CPZ. NWA would have happily placed the 175's on the MSA certificate if they had scope relief from NWA ALPA. NWA ALPA wouldn't give it because MSA ALPA wouldn't sign off on unlimited flowback to these seats. Thus, CPZ was created. NWA ALPA allowed the scope relief being NWA pilots had 100% flowback rights to these seats. MSA wanted the jets with no risk. CPZ pilots stepped up knowing the risks. This is why they are in a better position to be absorbed by mainline than MSA. (WARNING...next opinion only--shared by many) MSA pilots were short sighted as they wanted all the 76 seat flying for themselves if they got the jets--wouldn't allow for unlimited flowback.

There are great threads from 2005(?) on this very subject if anyone cares to do the digging.

Schwanker

Compass pilots didn't exist at the time to step up. If you mean later after its creation, most all of them were loosing there job somewhere else.

 

[NuGuy]

It was MSA's unwillingness to work with NWA/NWA ALPA which forced the creation of CPZ. NWA would have happily placed the 175's on the MSA certificate if they had scope relief from NWA ALPA. NWA ALPA wouldn't give it because MSA ALPA wouldn't sign off on unlimited flowback to these seats. Thus, CPZ was created. NWA ALPA allowed the scope relief being NWA pilots had 100% flowback rights to these seats. MSA wanted the jets with no risk. CPZ pilots stepped up knowing the risks. This is why they are in a better position to be absorbed by mainline than MSA. (WARNING...next opinion only--shared by many) MSA pilots were short sighted as they wanted all the 76 seat flying for themselves if they got the jets--wouldn't allow for unlimited flowback.

There are great threads from 2005(?) on this very subject if anyone cares to do the digging.

Schwanker

Heyas Swank,

You are very close to the mark on this. There is a history between NWA and MSA that goes way back and the flow through-brand scope issue has been an epic fail because certain individuals just didn't want to play ball.

The way I heard it:

Rewind back to 2001-02. We were ---><--- this close to an industry changing agreement where everyone would be covered under the same umbrella of scope.

Just to GET to that point, we had to fight past a LOT of knuckleheads on our OWN property. These are the a$$hats that exclaim "an airlink pilot will flow through over my dead body", but if you got a beer in him would just tell you that he didn't want his squadron buddy to have to start in a RJ or Saab.

Or the dingleberry whale guy, who walked off the farm at 21 and was a WB captain at 27, who had an overinflated sense of entitlement (same type of guy that voted 'no' on the furlough assessment for COBRA).

But we had actually made it past these dudes, and were in place to make an agreement, but the same kind of hardnoses at the Airlink carriers refused at least pay the freight on what was coming their way.

EVERYONE was going to have to take a hit to make it happen. But that's how deals are done. Get the flying under one roof, THEN make improvments down the road. The hardnoses (maybe %10 of the airlink list, but very squeaky wheels) had no intention of flowing, so there was NOTHING in it for them, despite the fact that it was a WIN/WIN/WIN for all the pilot groups involved.

It scuttled the whole deal.

Occam's Razor has the whole story. PM him, and cry over what could have been.

The memory of that lingers. Any similar deal will have to fight the same battles all over again. It's MUCH easier to get to 'GO' and collect your $200 with CPZ.

Nu

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Compass pilots didn't exist at the time to step up. If you mean later after its creation, most all of them were loosing there job somewhere else.

That's not quite true MB, most of us in the upper half of the list were not "loosing" (there's that tricky word again...) our jobs at all. We came to Compass because we wanted to be there, not because it was the only show in town. We were aware of the risks, and we accepted them.

 

[FBN0223]

Scchwanker and Nu thanks for the insight. cheers