Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

[~~~^~~~]

Even if your allegation is true, it speaks to the number of jobs NWA brings to the table v/s number of pilots. Delta currently needs to hire, per the testimony given:

The actual job count change was 294 for Delta and minus 613 for Northwest.

This also explains why NWA is so determined to get Delta guys below their DC9 pilots. NWA knows the number of furloughs they have been told are coming.

I hope that Delta can help you with your problem, but not at the expense of forcing Delta pilots out of a job.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FIN there is nothing wrong with them trying to help their membership. We would do the same thing.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FIN there is nothing wrong with them trying to help their membership. We would do the same thing.

Then why haven't we?

Delta's MEC, using the efforts of Delta pilots, has tried to hold slots open for excess NWA pilots while at the same time NWA has stacked their list with "Disabled Retired Pilots" who have no intention of turning a wheel. Isn't that a stark contrast?

Then NWA's Counsel tries to breach the non-prejudicial agreement that facilitated our working together to get the NWA pilots to pay parity, so he can turn the NWA pilots' new pay against the Delta pilots. That strikes at the heart of the intent of those mutual agreements.

If Delta played the NWA game of stacking the list it would benefit you and result in more furloughs. I'm glad the surviving MEC does not fight like the NWA MEC does, but still ....

 

[nwaredtail]

Even if your allegation is true, it speaks to the number of jobs NWA brings to the table v/s number of pilots. Delta currently needs to hire, per the testimony given:

This also explains why NWA is so determined to get Delta guys below their DC9 pilots. NWA knows the number of furloughs they have been told are coming.

I hope that Delta can help you with your problem, but not at the expense of forcing Delta pilots out of a job.

Why did you leave out the rest of the testimony from your witness that stated that they didnt count 350 positions for the DC-9 because they "figured" they be gone. Cherry picking once again.

 

[General Lee]

Funny, I can't find where they said any of that. Disadvantages from a day 1 snapshot maybe, but 5 to 10 years down the road, most DAL pilots make out better under the combined DOH model at the new DAL than they would have of DAL stood alone.

Under your POS model all DAL pilots benefit on the backs of NWA pilots. That won't fly.

I guess your model has no disadvantages for NWA pilots, like:

1. losing 5-10% seniority from day one.
2. Losing 10-20 over the next 5-10 years
3. Losing up to 50% over 15 years

but those numbers the NWA guys should just ignore?

You, GL and others just cherry pick your arguments but with no substance behind it. Your arguments make y'all the USAIR of this SLI arbitration.

You are upset that your bottom 400 were placed at the bottom of our proposal (up to 350 were likely going to be furloughed anyway), when your new and fun dynamic list would have placed our bottom 3000 on the bottom of the list? Oh wait, only for 5 years....right? Whatever.... You fail to see the big picture here---you got a large raise, you fly a lot of smaller, older planes that none of us want to fly, while we are bringing more and newer metal to the dance, that pay more. You can't see it...... I bet the arbitrators can.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Why did you leave out the rest of the testimony from your witness that stated that they didnt count 350 positions for the DC-9 because they "figured" they be gone. Cherry picking once again.

Were those pilots going to fill in for all of the senior guys who have ALREADY RETIRED that are still on your list today? Why do you still have names on your list for guys that left a long time ago? Sounds weird........would you like me to post the testimony showing that?

And did we leave out 350 DC9 slots? Didn't you add 631 787 slots? Where are they? You had 425 DC9 Captains in that computer model. Are you sure you will have that many? Also, are we comparing pay rates from NOW or from prior to the DCC? We are comparing them PRIOR, since we are looking at what each of us had going into this merger---carreer expectations you know...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why did you leave out the rest of the testimony from your witness that stated that they didnt count 350 positions for the DC-9 because they "figured" they be gone. Cherry picking once again.

If I were "Cherry Picking" I'd have posted Dave Stevens' e-mail.

Do you care to dispute the fact that NWA brings more pilots than jobs to the party? If so, bring it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I stated that should do everything for their pilots, not that I agreed with it or that it would prove fruitful.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh, I agree.

The other side states, "What is Truth?"

 

[General Lee]

If I were "Cherry Picking" I'd have posted Dave Stevens' e-mail.

Do you care to dispute the fact that NWA brings more pilots than jobs to the party? If so, bring it.

I so far have not shared that one, but I have referred to it...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

[ You fail to see the big picture here---you got a large raise,

NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Raises are temporary, seniority forever. DAL pilots didn't give us a raise, DAL did. You already had yours with LOA 19 (remember the one that you left us out of)

you fly a lot of smaller, older planes that none of us want to fly,

NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Do you mean the most profitable airplane in the newly combined fleet, the DC-9? Yup, we fly those.

while we are bringing more and newer metal to the dance, that pay more.

"merger of equals", already a moot point with this arbitration panel. Never been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Stop making this so easy for me.

You can't see it...... I bet the arbitrators can.

Still wondering why they wanted a presentation of a dynamic list? Just keep sticking to your proposal, General. Don't move an inch. Ask the USAIR guys how that worked for them.


Your problem is you talk out both sides. One post it's "I hope we get more 747-200/DC-9's so we can grow", then 2 posts later it's "you are going to park all your DC-9's and freighters, I know, I have seen the memo" Truth is, you are scared and I truly understand that after reading all the testimony.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Raises are temporary, seniority forever. DAL pilots didn't give us a raise, DAL did. You already had yours with LOA 19 (remember the one that you left us out of)

NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Do you mean the most profitable airplane in the newly combined fleet, the DC-9? Yup, we fly those.
Ask the USAIR guys how that worked for them.

Are you Tanker Clown?

Pay and equipment have been the cornerstone of very merger and the very definition of status quo in merger methodology and in ALPA's merger goals. I posted that quote earlier from ALPA's Merger Policy.

You claim a DC9 makes more money than a 777, or a 767? Really? Please post those numbers and a source.

You can ask YOUR ATTORNEY about US Air, he is the same Counsel they used for their arbitration. Give him a call, scooter, and let us know will ya' ?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

But remember one thing. If DAL did not keep the bar up, and in fact raise it with LOA 19, there would have been no charted ground for the NWA pay rates and work rules to rise to.

 

[General Lee]

NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Raises are temporary, seniority forever. DAL pilots didn't give us a raise, DAL did. You already had yours with LOA 19 (remember the one that you left us out of)

I said YOU needed to look at the big picture and quit crying, not the arbitrators. Did we leave you out of LOA19? Wasn't Stevens in Mexico enjoying himself at the time? Maybe he was wondering about any furloughs you guys were going to incur?




NEVER been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Do you mean the most profitable airplane in the newly combined fleet, the DC-9? Yup, we fly those. Size of planes don't matter? Tell RH that, he has been debunking your A330 myth during this last hearing. He also has been talking about our pay rates going into the merger. Remember what your Captain Av said about "the money...."




"merger of equals", already a moot point with this arbitration panel. Never been mentioned in an arbitrators award. Stop making this so easy for me.

Making it easy for you? You need to tell your people at the hearing to stop making my job so easy. Wow, great sound bites.. I have never heard so many "No, I don't believe so" sound bites from your people after our lawyer asks them if what they are proposing has EVER been done before.





Still wondering why they wanted a presentation of a dynamic list? Just keep sticking to your proposal, General. Don't move an inch. Ask the USAIR guys how that worked for them. Our proposal was correct from the beginning. Did you see when Bloch told our lawyer he didn't have to ask anymore questions about your dynamic list? I could post it for you.


Your problem is you talk out both sides. One post it's "I hope we get more 747-200/DC-9's so we can grow", then 2 posts later it's "you are going to park all your DC-9's and freighters, I know, I have seen the memo" Truth is, you are scared and I truly understand that after reading all the testimony. I want us to grow and have a mainline, but I don't want our pilots to have to bid the DC9, your guys can continue to fly them and enjoy them. Great. Our guys shouldn't have to. That is the key. I like mainline planes, but you can fly the old ones that aren't LNAV or VNAV capable. If you like that type of flying, go for it. And, those 742s may not be here soon, and if that is the truth, I don't want our guys to be affected by what your guys brought to the table. It should affect you. It is great that 1 of your pax 742s was picked up by the CRAF. How about the rest of them? How are other cargo carriers doing? How many 742Fs are out there flying regularly to Asia? Not many.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[xjhawk]

when will this be over? I cannot wait.

 

[patrickdc9]

Bye Bye---General Lee

Attention all Delta Pilots: The DC9 is just another airplane. You don't need to be afraid of it. I'm sure after a few sim periods and after a few trips, you will do just fine. You guys are still pilots right? If you're that scared, go out to your local FBO and rent a Cessna to get back the feel of really flying an airplane.

NWA has some of the best instructors and a great training program to get you through your checkout on the DC9.

 

[Raskal]

when will this be over? I cannot wait.

I'm worried it will never be over, even after the "decision". Lawsuits in the near future is my prediction, a shame really.

 

[Noserider76]

Attention all Delta Pilots: The DC9 is just another airplane. You don't need to be afraid of it. I'm sure after a few sim periods and after a few trips, you will do just fine. You guys are still pilots right? If you're that scared, go out to your local FBO and rent a Cessna to get back the feel of really flying an airplane.

NWA has some of the best instructors and a great training program to get you through your checkout on the DC9.

The scary part is that all its assembly line sibblings have been frosty beverage containers for many, many years now.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm worried it will never be over, even after the "decision". Lawsuits in the near future is my prediction, a shame really.

So far, this has been one of the cleanest mergers ever. Unless ALPA pulls out some really boneheaded last second agreement that throws a particular segment of the seniority list under the bus, I don't see a Cause of Action.

If ALPA violates DFR, yeah, they'll get sued. I'm sure Prater realizes that and knows that screwing either side would result in a decertification drive.

 

[Schwanker]

Facts:
1. NWA brings smaller aircraft to the table, relative seniority by equipment is our status quo without the merger.

Is that why NWA brings 63 of the 73 aircraft to the table which have a MTGW over 500K?

Schwanker