NWA Pool

[DTW320]

Yeah, your NWA proposal is a lot like USAir East's. How'd that come out, anyway? Just because you ask for the moon doesn't mean you'll get it, or even "middle ground." Nope. And I used to do ANC almost exclusively in the summer nonstop from ATL. The last two years though have had a 764 on it, a non premium widebody larger than your A332.

Bye Bye--General Lee

USAir East's position was DOH with no conditions and restrictions. They were warned several times before the ruling that they should modify that. They disagreed.

Also, you're showing your typical ignorance.....the NWA proposal classifies the 767400 as a premium widebody. We have 11 A332 that seat the same as your transatlantic 764's. We also have 21 A333's that are larger than any of your 764's. But, Hey!....at least your ignorance doesn't seem to interfere with your arrogance. So, you've got that going for you.

Thanks for playing!

BTW, No comments on any other points in my post other than the "seeing Russia" part? Nothing in the official DALPA Talking Points (TM) yet? Pity.

 

[General Lee]

USAir East's position was DOH with no conditions and restrictions. They were warned several times before the ruling that they should modify that. They disagreed.

Also, you're showing your typical ignorance.....the NWA proposal classifies the 767400 as a premium widebody. We have 11 A332 that seat the same as your transatlantic 764's. We also have 21 A333's that are larger than any of your 764's. But, Hey!....at least your ignorance doesn't seem to interfere with your arrogance. So, you've got that going for you.

Thanks for playing!

BTW, No comments on any other points in my post other than the "seeing Russia" part? Nothing in the official DALPA Talking Points (TM) yet? Pity.

So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight. You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes, and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses, and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal. Your pilots kept their pension, and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water. Most of your fleet is old, and many will be going away. Try to refute any of that please. Thanks for playing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight.It makes it a VERY different position than the position of the USAir MEC. You keep bending over backwards to compare this merger to that one. Good Luck! You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. I think there's enough "whining and crying" on BOTH sides to go around(pssst....remember how DALPA could "stop any merger" if they didn't get what they wanted......until they couldn't?) You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes,That's funny.....we don't have 400 DC9 FO's.....hmmmmmm. and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses,your heavily biased opinion only (HBOO) and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing.We've got a lot more than that as any objective observer would agree (and has)....but according to you guys this is all just a formality....a show put on to give the appearance of due diligence....before simply awarding whatever DALPA wants.....I think you should embrace that idea....it will make the outcome even more entertaining for me. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal.Agree....except that we were unequal in those metrics to a degree completely different than the degree of the differences in your proposal.....something the arbitrators know very well. Your pilots kept their pension,the majority of NWA pilots have a frozen amount close to what they would have received from the PBGC if it was terminated.....like you. and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water.Puhleeez....that's funny right there. Most of your fleet is old,about 4 years older than DAL in average fleet age....huge right? and many will be going away really?....which ones...I see you still have no comment on Bastians comments regarding price of fuel and the cargo division OR the DC9's staying around well past the next contract amendable date.. Try to refute any of that please.It was a pleasure! Thanks for playing.You're welcome!


Bye Bye--General Lee

You'll like ANC and the 742.

 

[OMNIDC10FO]

Has it been 30 months already?

Not even close, right? First flight was May, 2007!

 

[IFLYIMC]

Not even close, right? First flight was May, 2007!

Not first flight, DOH!

 

[DashTrash400]

We have four eligible for flowup right now; they're all management in flight ops or training & are unlikely to leave. I count a grand total of 10 Compass pilots that *aren't* management who will be eligible for flowup before the end of 2009. The number that actually take the flowup will probably depend on how the future viability of Compass is looking about that time.

 

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by General Lee
So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight.It makes it a VERY different position than the position of the USAir MEC. You keep bending over backwards to compare this merger to that one. Good Luck! You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. I think there's enough "whining and crying" on BOTH sides to go around(pssst....remember how DALPA could "stop any merger" if they didn't get what they wanted......until they couldn't?) You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes,That's funny.....we don't have 400 DC9 FO's.....hmmmmmm. and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses,your heavily biased opinion only (HBOO) and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing.We've got a lot more than that as any objective observer would agree (and has)....but according to you guys this is all just a formality....a show put on to give the appearance of due diligence....before simply awarding whatever DALPA wants.....I think you should embrace that idea....it will make the outcome even more entertaining for me. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal.Agree....except that we were unequal in those metrics to a degree completely different than the degree of the differences in your proposal.....something the arbitrators know very well. Your pilots kept their pension,the majority of NWA pilots have a frozen amount close to what they would have received from the PBGC if it was terminated.....like you. and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water.Puhleeez....that's funny right there. Most of your fleet is old,about 4 years older than DAL in average fleet age....huge right? and many will be going away really?....which ones...I see you still have no comment on Bastians comments regarding price of fuel and the cargo division OR the DC9's staying around well past the next contract amendable date.. Try to refute any of that please.It was a pleasure! Thanks for playing.You're welcome!



DTW,

Your DOH argument is weak, just like USAir East's. You are bringing older planes that pay the least. Even with plans "changing" everyday, you are still losing DC9s, and the 742s will be sooner than later, something the arbitrators have probably seen in "confidential" hearings. We are bringing more widebodies and higher pay to the picture, while your senior guys benefit and keep their pensions. If you continue to say that your DC9s are only "4 years older" than our MD88s, I think I will and the arbitrators will start bursting out laughing. Can you name any other US Airlines that still use DC9s in pax configurations? One step into the cockpit will tell anyone how old that thing is. (but hey, it is a "workhorse...") And your pensions equal what we got? I got $36,000 that automatically went into the 401K, which is now sunk. Yeah, sounds equal.....Riiiight. A guaranteed $12,000 a month for senior captains is equal to 401K money that may or may not be there. And Eddie did talk to a DL crew about your meeting at MSP, and gave a good trip report, saying it was hostile initially, and he didn't want to make big waves, and could understand your own hostility towards past management. Yes, he will tell you what you want to hear. As soon as your unions are voted out and don't have to push back each plane at every station, things will move.

Keep trying to refute it all. It is entertaining. Ask your lawyer how it fealt losing with the USAir deal. And who is your "objective" observer? Was it your 744 Captain who admitted ratios were used in prior SLIs? Was it your A320FO who admitted attrition had never been used before? Was it your computer model specialist who admitted that a Jan 1st snapshot was used for fleet numbers, while omitting our 777s on firm order, and added 787 slots? Wow, maybe you are right?????? Oh yeah, Bloch said we were "equals...."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TNPILOT]

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?

 

[AirportBum]

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?

Exactly. The General seems to be taking an unhealthy pleasure in insisting that his company (Delta) will be (in his opinion) parking airplanes. For some reason in his mind, this is a good thing. He can't seem to get over it, and thus pollutes every thread with his rhetoric.

Good luck to the poolies, I'm pulling for ya. Hopefully we'll get some good info after this SLI business is over with, which should still keep most poolies within their "year."

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Because the junior RDs are getting nervous. The spin machine is in overdrive and will remain that way until the wisemen hand down the middle of the road list. Then wait for the real whining to begin.

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?

 

[General Lee]

Exactly. The General seems to be taking an unhealthy pleasure in insisting that his company (Delta) will be (in his opinion) parking airplanes. For some reason in his mind, this is a good thing. He can't seem to get over it, and thus pollutes every thread with his rhetoric.

Good luck to the poolies, I'm pulling for ya. Hopefully we'll get some good info after this SLI business is over with, which should still keep most poolies within their "year."

That is ridiculous. From what I have been hearing (from VPs and CP types) some of those planes COULD be on the way out soon. (I guess I have to say that) Could that affect any of our junior pilots? You bet. Should that be presented to the arbitrators? You bet. Has it already? Probably, in those exciting "confidential" portions of the transcripts. Do I want less mainline planes eventually? No. I do want things to be fair, and that includes what is being brought to the table, and what is leaving.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Because the junior RDs are getting nervous. The spin machine is in overdrive and will remain that way until the wisemen hand down the middle of the road list. Then wait for the real whining to begin.

Thanks for making my point. Junior RDs are nervous, because you are bringing DC9s to the table, along with cargo planes that will be gone sooner than later. Oh yeah, oil is down so they can continue to fly, right? So is global demand for cargo, and the 744 cargo planes are still more efficient than your old 742s. Who else flies 742s for cargo these days? Atlas does MAC charters with them, and Connie--who has unfortunately crashed two of them lately. All of the big Asian cargo carriers have switched to 744s, and even Air France has cargo 777s now. The days of your 742s are dwindling. I personally would love to see them stay, but I wouldn't bet on it for a long period of time. But you guys would love to have them stay just past the SLI, and then wave them goodbye, with some of our junior pilots. It's gotta be fair.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Your DOH argument is weak, just like USAir East's. You are bringing older planes that pay the least. Even with plans "changing" everyday, you are still losing DC9s, and the 742s will be sooner than later, something the arbitrators have probably seen in "confidential" hearings. We are bringing more widebodies and higher pay to the picture, while your senior guys benefit and keep their pensions. If you continue to say that your DC9s are only "4 years older" than our MD88s, I think I will and the arbitrators will start bursting out laughing. Can you name any other US Airlines that still use DC9s in pax configurations? One step into the cockpit will tell anyone how old that thing is. (but hey, it is a "workhorse...") And your pensions equal what we got? I got $36,000 that automatically went into the 401K, which is now sunk. Yeah, sounds equal.....Riiiight. A guaranteed $12,000 a month for senior captains is equal to 401K money that may or may not be there. And Eddie did talk to a DL crew about your meeting at MSP, and gave a good trip report, saying it was hostile initially, and he didn't want to make big waves, and could understand your own hostility towards past management. Yes, he will tell you what you want to hear. As soon as your unions are voted out and don't have to push back each plane at every station, things will move.

Geez General....can you even read a checklist? My God, the lack of reading comprehension you've displayed is PATHETIC!!!

I said the AVERAGE FLEET AGE of NWA is 4 years older than DAL's. Not the DC9 individually. DO YOU UNDERSTAND???? I'm really starting to think you have some mental stability issues here. $12,000/month pension? You REALLY don't understand pension laws do you? Really? Come on....YOU? You're really not familiar with IRS limits on pension plans? W O W. I'll make it as simple as I can for you. No past or current NWA pilot is receiving or will ever receive $12,000/month.....not even remotely close. ALSO, your "sunk" $36,000 is not what you are going to get from the PBGC now is it? In fact, that's not related at all to your PBGC benefit on your terminated pension is it? Besides, should I really dig up some of your old posts where you brag about how well you guys made out on the pension note and BK claim sale? Oh, I see, it the Stock Market's fault now. Boo-fricken-Hoo.

If you're going to try to obfuscate reality with BS you're going to have to try a lot harder...you're latest attempts are truly SAD.

CobraAir is right on the money....you're spin machine is running way past the redline and looks to be heading for a meltdown. Time to call the Batphone for some new DALPA Talking Points(TM)...The old ones are very pathetic and even I don't want you to look as stupid as you did in that post.

 

[General Lee]

Geez General....can you even read a checklist? My God, the lack of reading comprehension you've displayed is PATHETIC!!!

I said the AVERAGE FLEET AGE of NWA is 4 years older than DAL's. Not the DC9 individually. DO YOU UNDERSTAND???? I'm really starting to think you have some mental stability issues here. $12,000/month pension? You REALLY don't understand pension laws do you? Really? Come on....YOU? You're really not familiar with IRS limits on pension plans? W O W. I'll make it as simple as I can for you. No past or current NWA pilot is receiving or will ever receive $12,000/month.....not even remotely close. ALSO, your "sunk" $36,000 is not what you are going to get from the PBGC now is it? In fact, that's not related at all to your PBGC benefit on your terminated pension is it? Besides, should I really dig up some of your old posts where you brag about how well you guys made out on the pension note and BK claim sale? Oh, I see, it the Stock Market's fault now. Boo-fricken-Hoo.

If you're going to try to obfuscate reality with BS you're going to have to try a lot harder...you're latest attempts are truly SAD.

CobraAir is right on the money....you're spin machine is running way past the redline and looks to be heading for a meltdown. Time to call the Batphone for some new DALPA Talking Points(TM)...The old ones are very pathetic and even I don't want you to look as stupid as you did in that post.

I don't understand????? Sure I do. First of all, the CLAIM money on the equity we received after BK (due to taking concessions) is different than our pension dump. Two seperate deals there. I received over $200,000 for the equity (stock) coming out of BK. You and I will also get some equity coming out of this merger. Got it? My pension dump sum was pathetic, a mere $36,000. That was deposited into my 401K for this year. The other large amount (the equity) filled what was left for 2006 (I had already filled most of it anyway), and then 2007. The rest was taxed, which took almost 40% away. One of your 744 Captains told me that he will receive $12,000 a month for his pension, and then said he would probably leave early, since the pay raise doesn't do much for him since he only flies one 12 day Pacific trip a month, and doesn't pick up time. I wonder if he actually retired, like your NALPA people said thousands and thousands would........

As far as my "spin"---I pointed out actual testimony on your side that went against your DOH position. It was classic, and until you can find some against our case, other than Bloch saying "we are equal" (which meant one isn't failing, while the other is rescuing), then I would suggest you sit back and get prepared for the next round, which is coming up shortly. What you think is sad or pathetic, is actually right on the money. You fail to see it, but you will. Hey, here are some more transcripts for you debunking your DOH vs ratio thoughts... careful, it stings...(that's what she said...)


14 A He and I were both on the Northwest merger
15 committee 1986 through 1990 representing the
16 Northwest pilots in the Republic proceeding.
17 Q By the way, in connection with that
18 proceeding, it was the Northwest pilots' position
19 that a date of hire list was not a proper list but
20 rather the ratio list was a proper list; correct?
21 A Our proposal was a ratioed list, yes




And it is correct, just to circle back,
15 that at the time of the seniority integration, it
16 was the red book pilots that had been pressing for a
17 ratioed solution?
18 A The former Northwest pilots proposed a
19 ratioed solution in front of Mr. Roberts, yes




A You want me to read it out loud?
4 Q Please.
5 A The third paragraph reads as follows, and
6 I quote: "If you have a limited time frame to
7 prepare, we would urge you to concentrate first on
8 the various cases involving Continental and to do so
9 in chronological order. Then for contrast, we would
10 suggest reviewing the Northwest/Republic
11 arbitrator's work to see how not to do it."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[The General]

so as far as calling us from the NWA pool.....?

 

[General Lee]

so as far as calling us from the NWA pool.....?

If NWA actually hires 450 next year, I bet you will be called. I would think so, anyway.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IFLYIMC]

so as far as calling us from the NWA pool.....?

You go behind CPZ pilots and I believe Mesaba as well.

 

[General Lee]

You go behind CPZ pilots and I believe Mesaba as well.

Is that true if the Compass pilots haven't finished the mandatory 32 months or whatever they need to have at Compass?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DYLIN]

Is that true if the Compass pilots haven't finished the mandatory 32 months or whatever they need to have at Compass?

Bye Bye--General Lee

No.

The poolies, or anyone who was interviewed, would go to class before a Compass pilot because they need 30 months at Compass first.

 

[General Lee]

No.

The poolies, or anyone who was interviewed, would go to class before a Compass pilot because they need 30 months at Compass first.

That is what I thought. I knew there was a time limit at Compass first. If you are in the pool now, hopefully you will be flying a DC9 next year.....

Bye Bye--General Lee