NWA Pool

[FBN0223]

Does anyone have any information for pilots placed in the NWA pool. One NWA class was just a week or so from starting when the class was cancelled. My guess is that Pilot HR at NWA is dead and all future hiring will be through Delta. Any information or educated guesses are appreciated. Thanks

 

[lakemead1]

I was jumpseating the other day and the FO has a friend in the pool and he was under the impression that the pool would be dissolved. Any new hiring would probably be done by Delta, and the poolies would have to apply and interview again.

 

[TNPILOT]

deleted

 

[1031Guy]

I'm currently in the pool, but not holding my breath...it's anyone's guess at this point.

 

[General Lee]

Someone on our Dalpa board stated that a friend of his (?) attended a job fair in Chicago recently, and both Delta and NWA had a booth. The Delta people said we would hire 100 or so next year, and the NWA people said 450.(remember, we have seperate certificates for atleast all of 09, so that is possible--a total of 550 that is) Why that many? Probably NOT due to all of the retirements that NALPA said would happen, but rather the manning changes we gave them when they got our contract and rules associated with it. If you got hired on the NWA side, you would probably go to a DC9 or a bus(I doubt the 747FE at ANC will be an option much longer, IMO). On the Delta side, you might go to the MD88, 738, or 767ER in JFK.(just a guess) I don't know if those numbers are accurate, but there you have it. Let's hope we do hire that many.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[clippyrip]

Probably NOT due to all of the retirements that NALPA said would happen, but rather the manning changes we gave them when they got our contract and rules associated with it.

I am under the impression that we don't have to man to the Delta requirements for many months. That being the case, if they need to hire, it will be for a multitude of reasons. Retirements would be one of those reasons. Pulling more 9s out of the desert may be another. Either way, that is good for our poolies. Remember, our pilots don't have to retire at 65.

 

[General Lee]

I am under the impression that we don't have to man to the Delta requirements for many months. That being the case, if they need to hire, it will be for a multitude of reasons. Retirements would be one of those reasons. Pulling more 9s out of the desert may be another. Either way, that is good for our poolies. Remember, our pilots don't have to retire at 65.

Remember, I said I had read that the guys said 450 NEXT YEAR, which could be a few here and there, until they possibly hit that number. As far as guys retiring at age 65 or earlier, NALPA gave the impression that 1000 were going to go all at once. That didn't happen. And, you also have to remember that some LARGE planes may leave the fleet (very good chance), so that might mitigate any increase due to some DC9s coming out of the desert. I too hope we do a lot of hiring regardless.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

That didn't happen. And, you also have to remember that some LARGE planes may leave the fleet (very good chance), so that might mitigate any increase due to some DC9s coming out of the desert. I too hope we do a lot of hiring regardless.

Hmmm, that's not what Eddie boy said in MSP. He told the group there that there were going to be significantly FEWER changes in fleet makeup due to logistics.

No changes to 747-2, or SEA or ANC Fleet makeups.

So, I wouldn't call that a very good chance.

MD-90s leaving, though? Very good chance. Can't support having just 16 when there are other AC already in the fleet doing the same job.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Hmmm, that's not what Eddie boy said in MSP. He told the group there that there were going to be significantly FEWER changes in fleet makeup due to logistics.

No changes to 747-2, or SEA or ANC Fleet makeups.

So, I wouldn't call that a very good chance.

MD-90s leaving, though? Very good chance. Can't support having just 16 when there are other AC already in the fleet doing the same job.

Nu

That's funny, that's not what B.C. said (a VP of route networks) at an incommand session just a week ago. He said "they're gone." Do you really think Eddie would just come up and say "Hi, I'm your new CEO, and here is what you are losing." As far as the MD90s go, they are debating whether or not they can get enough to support a fleet (50 or so needed), and they are still looking to see if they can do that. (Although Saudia has 28 for sale NOW) They are looking at other things right now from your friends inbetween MSP and DTW, and that does look promising, as stated by RA in a recent incommand session. We'll see, but you and I (and the arbitrators) know what will stay and what won't (like your 94 DC9s----do you really have that many?), and the confidential statements in the testimony will show the way eventually. If the 742s do stay---fantastic! Our proposal for the SLI has me in the top 10% if those FOs----I can't wait to be Sarah Palin's neighbor.(after the fence is up)

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ERfly]

General,

That 450 on the NWA side, would those be hired through NWA at MSP?

 

[TNPILOT]

Let's hope the General's news is correct. Those of us in the pool are running out of time.

 

[IFLYIMC]

Eligibility for flow ups too NWA started last month for Compass. I'm not sure about the pecking order after that.

 

[DTW320]

That's funny, that's not what B.C. said (a VP of route networks) at an incommand session just a week ago. Well, then it seems that the good'ol boys from ATL need to get their stories straight doesn't it. I expected better/clearer intel from the Holy DAL leadership. He said "they're gone." Bastian said with fuel falling they see opportunity with cargo and are re-thinking any previous plans they may have had. Do you really think Eddie would just come up and say "Hi, I'm your new CEO, and here is what you are losing."OK, soooooo.....he'll come up and lie to our faces....according to you. That's cool.....we're used to that at NWA. Nice to see that won't change under Delta leadership. As far as the MD90s go, they are debating whether or not they can get enough to support a fleet (50 or so needed), and they are still looking to see if they can do that. (Although Saudia has 28 for sale NOW) They are looking at other things right now from your friends inbetween MSP and DTW, and that does look promising, as stated by RA in a recent incommand session. We'll see, but you and I (and the arbitrators) know what will stay and what won't (like your 94 DC9s----do you really have that many?),We did on 1/1/08, we have 75 in service now, not including those in storage, fully paid for, ready in a weeks notice...with fuel prices falling ya know, like Bastian said (or was he lying about that too?)Said they will be around for at least 5 or 6 more years. and the confidential statements in the testimony will show the way eventually. If the 742s do stay---fantastic! Our proposal for the SLI has me in the top 10% if those FOs Cool....and the NWA proposal has me asking you for checklists on big airplanes...but who knows...ANC is nice----I can't wait to be Sarah Palin's neighbor.(after the fence is up)

Bye Bye---General Lee

You can see Russia from our crew room there.

 

[Fly4hire]

Eligibility for flow ups too NWA started last month for Compass. I'm not sure about the pecking order after that.

Has it been 30 months already? I hope you guys have the opportunity to use it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well, see there is this little problem of the union called IAM at NWA. It was not something that was completely looked at when DAL made all of these grand plans for post DCC.
It stipulates in their contract that ALL NWA jets will be serviced Above, Below wing along with cabin cleaning, by IAM.
Now if you run the numbers on moving the DC-9's to ATL, 330's to NYC and ATL, 744's to ATL and NYC, 320's to SLC and CVG, it would require Delta to in essence hire 1000's of new NWA employees in these hubs to service these airplanes. It cannot be done by Delta's DGS per the IAM contract. Now that is a significant cost.
With Delta having the goal of getting rid of the representation, it does not serve them well to have our employees become NWA employees represented by IAM. If we hired these people it would cause the DAL side of the operation to be grossly over staffed in ATL, NYC, CVG, and SLC. Now why would they do that? Our jets could be serviced by NWA folks because there is no union here.
There are ways around it, but it appears that DAL rather have the voting employee groups take care of this problem in the next six months than to go to the IAM and ask for a waiver. Who knows how it will turn out, but it does throw a wrench in their initial plans.

 

[Simon Says]

General,

That 450 on the NWA side, would those be hired through NWA at MSP?

What happened with NetJets??? I had a phone interview after you and got flushed shortly their after, but I thought you were still waiting to hear.

 

[ERfly]

What happened with NetJets??? I had a phone interview after you and got flushed shortly their after, but I thought you were still waiting to hear.

I am still waiting to hear, but it's been 4 months. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[General Lee]

You can see Russia from our crew room there.

Yeah, your NWA proposal is a lot like USAir East's. How'd that come out, anyway? Just because you ask for the moon doesn't mean you'll get it, or even "middle ground." Nope. And I used to do ANC almost exclusively in the summer nonstop from ATL. The last two years though have had a 764 on it, a non premium widebody larger than your A332.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

That 450 on the NWA side, would those be hired through NWA at MSP?

Probably I would guess. Until the seperate certificates are merged (SOC), everything will stay status quo.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[hockeypilot44]

Yeah, your NWA proposal is a lot like USAir East's. How'd that come out, anyway? Just because you ask for the moon doesn't mean you'll get it, or even "middle ground." Nope. And I used to do ANC almost exclusively in the summer nonstop from ATL. The last two years though have had a 764 on it, a non premium widebody larger than your A332.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you have to put your opinion of the merger on every damn thread? We get it. You think NWA's proposal is not realistic. What you think does not matter. The only thing that matters is the arbitrators' opinions. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I am tired of reading your repetitive posts over and over again. Stop hijacking threads.

 

[DTW320]

Yeah, your NWA proposal is a lot like USAir East's. How'd that come out, anyway? Just because you ask for the moon doesn't mean you'll get it, or even "middle ground." Nope. And I used to do ANC almost exclusively in the summer nonstop from ATL. The last two years though have had a 764 on it, a non premium widebody larger than your A332.

Bye Bye--General Lee

USAir East's position was DOH with no conditions and restrictions. They were warned several times before the ruling that they should modify that. They disagreed.

Also, you're showing your typical ignorance.....the NWA proposal classifies the 767400 as a premium widebody. We have 11 A332 that seat the same as your transatlantic 764's. We also have 21 A333's that are larger than any of your 764's. But, Hey!....at least your ignorance doesn't seem to interfere with your arrogance. So, you've got that going for you.

Thanks for playing!

BTW, No comments on any other points in my post other than the "seeing Russia" part? Nothing in the official DALPA Talking Points (TM) yet? Pity.

 

[General Lee]

USAir East's position was DOH with no conditions and restrictions. They were warned several times before the ruling that they should modify that. They disagreed.

Also, you're showing your typical ignorance.....the NWA proposal classifies the 767400 as a premium widebody. We have 11 A332 that seat the same as your transatlantic 764's. We also have 21 A333's that are larger than any of your 764's. But, Hey!....at least your ignorance doesn't seem to interfere with your arrogance. So, you've got that going for you.

Thanks for playing!

BTW, No comments on any other points in my post other than the "seeing Russia" part? Nothing in the official DALPA Talking Points (TM) yet? Pity.

So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight. You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes, and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses, and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal. Your pilots kept their pension, and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water. Most of your fleet is old, and many will be going away. Try to refute any of that please. Thanks for playing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight.It makes it a VERY different position than the position of the USAir MEC. You keep bending over backwards to compare this merger to that one. Good Luck! You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. I think there's enough "whining and crying" on BOTH sides to go around(pssst....remember how DALPA could "stop any merger" if they didn't get what they wanted......until they couldn't?) You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes,That's funny.....we don't have 400 DC9 FO's.....hmmmmmm. and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses,your heavily biased opinion only (HBOO) and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing.We've got a lot more than that as any objective observer would agree (and has)....but according to you guys this is all just a formality....a show put on to give the appearance of due diligence....before simply awarding whatever DALPA wants.....I think you should embrace that idea....it will make the outcome even more entertaining for me. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal.Agree....except that we were unequal in those metrics to a degree completely different than the degree of the differences in your proposal.....something the arbitrators know very well. Your pilots kept their pension,the majority of NWA pilots have a frozen amount close to what they would have received from the PBGC if it was terminated.....like you. and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water.Puhleeez....that's funny right there. Most of your fleet is old,about 4 years older than DAL in average fleet age....huge right? and many will be going away really?....which ones...I see you still have no comment on Bastians comments regarding price of fuel and the cargo division OR the DC9's staying around well past the next contract amendable date.. Try to refute any of that please.It was a pleasure! Thanks for playing.You're welcome!


Bye Bye--General Lee

You'll like ANC and the 742.

 

[OMNIDC10FO]

Has it been 30 months already?

Not even close, right? First flight was May, 2007!

 

[IFLYIMC]

Not even close, right? First flight was May, 2007!

Not first flight, DOH!

 

[DashTrash400]

We have four eligible for flowup right now; they're all management in flight ops or training & are unlikely to leave. I count a grand total of 10 Compass pilots that *aren't* management who will be eligible for flowup before the end of 2009. The number that actually take the flowup will probably depend on how the future viability of Compass is looking about that time.

 

[General Lee]

Originally Posted by General Lee
So, since you have 10 year fences it will happen then, right? Riiiiight.It makes it a VERY different position than the position of the USAir MEC. You keep bending over backwards to compare this merger to that one. Good Luck! You must have thought McCain and Palin were going to win too? The problem with you guys is that you are used to whining and crying, and then getting your way. I think there's enough "whining and crying" on BOTH sides to go around(pssst....remember how DALPA could "stop any merger" if they didn't get what they wanted......until they couldn't?) You go for the moon, and hope to get something in the middle. We won't play that game. Nicelau gave something that was fair, and that was 500 at the top for their differences, and then relative seniority. We asked for the same, but with 400 on the bottom for smaller and least paying planes,That's funny.....we don't have 400 DC9 FO's.....hmmmmmm. and planes leaving the fleet while we expand NOW, with better pay overall. (pre DCC is all that matters) Our lawyer has trounced yours and your witnesses,your heavily biased opinion only (HBOO) and all you have is that Bloch said we "are equals"---meaning one is not failing while the other is rescuing.We've got a lot more than that as any objective observer would agree (and has)....but according to you guys this is all just a formality....a show put on to give the appearance of due diligence....before simply awarding whatever DALPA wants.....I think you should embrace that idea....it will make the outcome even more entertaining for me. We aren't equal in size, we aren't equal in planes, we weren't equal in pay, and our future orders weren't equal.Agree....except that we were unequal in those metrics to a degree completely different than the degree of the differences in your proposal.....something the arbitrators know very well. Your pilots kept their pension,the majority of NWA pilots have a frozen amount close to what they would have received from the PBGC if it was terminated.....like you. and ours left because of that. You now have our rules, and we don't have the pension. That blows most of your DOH reasoning out of the water.Puhleeez....that's funny right there. Most of your fleet is old,about 4 years older than DAL in average fleet age....huge right? and many will be going away really?....which ones...I see you still have no comment on Bastians comments regarding price of fuel and the cargo division OR the DC9's staying around well past the next contract amendable date.. Try to refute any of that please.It was a pleasure! Thanks for playing.You're welcome!



DTW,

Your DOH argument is weak, just like USAir East's. You are bringing older planes that pay the least. Even with plans "changing" everyday, you are still losing DC9s, and the 742s will be sooner than later, something the arbitrators have probably seen in "confidential" hearings. We are bringing more widebodies and higher pay to the picture, while your senior guys benefit and keep their pensions. If you continue to say that your DC9s are only "4 years older" than our MD88s, I think I will and the arbitrators will start bursting out laughing. Can you name any other US Airlines that still use DC9s in pax configurations? One step into the cockpit will tell anyone how old that thing is. (but hey, it is a "workhorse...") And your pensions equal what we got? I got $36,000 that automatically went into the 401K, which is now sunk. Yeah, sounds equal.....Riiiight. A guaranteed $12,000 a month for senior captains is equal to 401K money that may or may not be there. And Eddie did talk to a DL crew about your meeting at MSP, and gave a good trip report, saying it was hostile initially, and he didn't want to make big waves, and could understand your own hostility towards past management. Yes, he will tell you what you want to hear. As soon as your unions are voted out and don't have to push back each plane at every station, things will move.

Keep trying to refute it all. It is entertaining. Ask your lawyer how it fealt losing with the USAir deal. And who is your "objective" observer? Was it your 744 Captain who admitted ratios were used in prior SLIs? Was it your A320FO who admitted attrition had never been used before? Was it your computer model specialist who admitted that a Jan 1st snapshot was used for fleet numbers, while omitting our 777s on firm order, and added 787 slots? Wow, maybe you are right?????? Oh yeah, Bloch said we were "equals...."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TNPILOT]

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?

 

[AirportBum]

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?

Exactly. The General seems to be taking an unhealthy pleasure in insisting that his company (Delta) will be (in his opinion) parking airplanes. For some reason in his mind, this is a good thing. He can't seem to get over it, and thus pollutes every thread with his rhetoric.

Good luck to the poolies, I'm pulling for ya. Hopefully we'll get some good info after this SLI business is over with, which should still keep most poolies within their "year."

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Because the junior RDs are getting nervous. The spin machine is in overdrive and will remain that way until the wisemen hand down the middle of the road list. Then wait for the real whining to begin.

Why are we talking about the SLI on a NWA Pool thread again?