NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

[General Lee]

Mr. Bi-Polar strikes again. What is your opinion, Mr. Genius, on why the arbitrators said they are treating this as a merger of equals? HMMMMMMMMM.

And how many times has "future aircraft parkings" been figured into an award. ANSWER=0. So, why would DALPA spend almost an entire day trying to convince 3 experienced arbitrators that they should take that into account?

Think "rookies"

You guys are really hung up on this "equals" thing. Guess what? Bloch was saying neither of us was failing, while the other one was rescuing the other. (that goes against your "we are bringing in so much money while you are in debt" argument). Also, that equal thing blows away your "super duper premium flying" idea.

And does future parkings influence arbitrators? You say it does not. What about faulty computer models? Your SLI computer model had 94 DC9s in the mix, along with all of your 787s flying by July 1st of 2009. Do you really think that will happen? Your computer model said so----since it took a "snapshot" at Jan 1st of 2008. Our guy slammed your guy on the stand. How many DC9 captains did it figure in again? Ummmmm, 415. Riiight. And, your MEC chair was asked if he had heard about any future furloughs from your CEO, and he stated interestingly enough "I don't recall....." Wouldn't the FIRST thing as an MEC chair ask to the CEO if he heard about any possible furloughs be "How many are we talking about?" He said he didn't recall, and our lawyer reminded him it was 200-350. Could that be used in the SLI? It was about the FUTURE.......Oh yeah, and your computer model also left out the 8 extra 777s we WILL be getting by July 1st of next year (Boeing just agreed to it, and they are working again). Darn computers! And is there any reason why part of the transcripts are "confidential"? Could that include our future business plans? (like the possibilities of losing certain flying?) Would that be important? I would think so.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

You guys are really hung up on this "equals" thing. Guess what? Bloch was saying neither of us was failing, while the other one was rescuing the other. (that goes against your "we are bringing in so much money while you are in debt" argument). Also, that equal thing blows away your "super duper premium flying" idea.

And does future parkings influence arbitrators? You say it does not. What about faulty computer models? Your SLI computer model had 94 DC9s in the mix, along with all of your 787s flying by July 1st of 2009. Do you really think that will happen? Your computer model said so----since it took a "snapshot" at Jan 1st of 2008. Our guy slammed your guy on the stand. How many DC9 captains did it figure in again? Ummmmm, 415. Riiight. And, your MEC chair was asked if he had heard about any future furloughs from your CEO, and he stated interestingly enough "I don't recall....." Wouldn't the FIRST thing as an MEC chair ask to the CEO if he heard about any possible furloughs be "How many are we talking about?" He said he didn't recall, and our lawyer reminded him it was 200-350. Could that be used in the SLI? It was about the FUTURE.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

Pretty sure that if you think attrition will not be considered, nothing happening past Dec 20th will be considered.(parking planes, furloughs)

Can't have it both ways Einstein. Take your meds and stop typing.

 

[jetflier]

No, not at all. He stated that it was more than 50. It went against the numbers that I was hearing. The number you posted is in line with that.

I will not argue that there were probably reasons that our management did what they did. Less than two hrs means that they probably sat on the info for six hrs or so. I assumed that when we started getting Pop Ups about name tags that the DOJ had informed them. The official news did not come out for six more hrs.

Our pensions are gone. We gave them away. End of story. There is nothing that we can do about that now. I think that you guys keeping yours is great. I guess it was a bet on what the future would bring. Now you have your pensions, partial pay restoration, and works rules. The way I see it, you played all of your cards very well. I also assume that you will come out very well in the SLI. Many people take the NWA folks for idiots. Fact is that you are far from that. You have played your hand very well. A straight ratio would be a win too.
I look forward to you guys being on property in 2012. Hopefully we will finally stop the slide.

ACL,

Yep we have heard the Delta cry about our pensions. I was hired in Mar of 1995 and will get a whopping $3400/month in the year 2022, that might just make my double wide house payment by then.

Our guys that are junior to me collect sums all the way down to $70.00/month, (junior DC9 F/O).
Some pilots can chime in with less than that.

All the NWA pilots have been raked over the coals and have tried to hold the line. We've lost some battles and won others.

We hope to bring to Delta the true resolve of our pilot group, where collectively we can begin to work towards a profitable and successful future as Delta Pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Pretty sure that if you think attrition will not be considered, nothing happening past Dec 20th will be considered.(parking planes, furloughs)

Can't have it both ways Einstein. Take your meds and stop typing.

Retirements, or actual parking of planes? Big difference. There is NO way to be SURE that retirements will happen. Age 60 is GONE. If we still had it, it would be easy to tell if people were going to leave--they would have to. Now age 65 has screwed up your numbers, because there is no certainty that those senior guys will go next month, or 4 years from now. Now, if we have "confidential" portions of the transcripts, I would BET that there is some info there that pertains to what WILL happen with the ANC cargo base, and maybe how many DC9s they are planning to park for good. If not, why would it be "confidential?" They could put RA on the stand and ask him. Would that be admissable? If Steenland told your MEC chair that NWA would have furloughed 200-350 pilots, could that be used? It is all about career expectations, and what will happen with those planes. Why do you still have 94 DC9s in your computer model, anyway? Do you still have 94 DC9s? Did Steenland say some were to be parked? See, you can have it both ways.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

Retirements, or actual parking of planes? Big difference. There is NO way to be SURE that retirements will happen. Age 60 is GONE. If we still had it, it would be easy to tell if people were going to leave--they would have to. Now age 65 has screwed up your numbers, because there is no certainty that those senior guys will go next month, or 4 years from now. Now, if we have "confidential" portions of the transcripts, I would BET that there is some info there that pertains to what WILL happen with the ANC cargo base, and maybe how many DC9s they are planning to park for good. If not, why would it be "confidential?" They could put RA on the stand and ask him. Would that be admissable? If Steenland told your MEC chair that NWA would have furloughed 200-350 pilots, could that be used? It is all about career expectations, and what will happen with those planes. Why do you still have 94 DC9s in your computer model, anyway? Do you still have 94 DC9s? Did Steenland say some were to be parked? See, you can have it both ways.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why, because some mid to low seniority Delta pilot says so. laughable. Keep grabbing at straws...... Looks to me like you are getting nervous.....

 

[Fly4hire]

Why, because some mid to low seniority Delta pilot says so. laughable. Keep grabbing at straws...... Looks to me like you are getting nervous.....

Redtail. May as well be talking to the wall. They already know how the arbitrator will rule, what it will be based on, what they are thinking, what they really meant they said, and that they naturally agree entirely with DALPA's assumptions. I'm simply amazed they haven't just awarded the DALPA SLI already.

I think their constant rationalization is a form of overcompensation and suggests insecurity over the fact that they know they over reached with the arbitrators just like they did in negotiations.

Funny, I was in NRT yesterday, and there must have been 15 NWA (premium WB) aircraft on the ramp just while I was there. I didn't see a single Widget tail, and I was looking.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Redtail. May as well be talking to the wall. They already know how the arbitrator will rule, what it will be based on, what they are thinking, what they really meant they said, and that they naturally agree entirely with DALPA's assumptions. I'm simply amazed they haven't just awarded the DALPA SLI already.

I think their constant rationalization is a form of overcompensation and suggests insecurity over the fact that they know they over reached with the arbitrators just like they did in negotiations.

Funny, I was in NRT yesterday, and there must have been 15 NWA (premium WB) aircraft on the ramp just while I was there. I didn't see a single Widget tail, and I was looking.

The 777 from ATL gets in several hours earlier than the nwa push in NRT.

Funny... I haven't seen any NWA aircraft in most cities DAL serves.

 

[General Lee]

Redtail. May as well be talking to the wall. They already know how the arbitrator will rule, what it will be based on, what they are thinking, what they really meant they said, and that they naturally agree entirely with DALPA's assumptions. I'm simply amazed they haven't just awarded the DALPA SLI already.

I think their constant rationalization is a form of overcompensation and suggests insecurity over the fact that they know they over reached with the arbitrators just like they did in negotiations.

Funny, I was in NRT yesterday, and there must have been 15 NWA (premium WB) aircraft on the ramp just while I was there. I didn't see a single Widget tail, and I was looking.

What's great is that there will be a lot of Delta 767ERs soon at NRT, replacing a lot of your A330s, and all of your 757s. Yep, that's right. We will be moving in, and a lot of your A330s WILL BE going to JFK, to fly to lovely places like Amman, Cairo, and Tel Aviv. Maybe your A330s can get some Africa action, too. Ever wonder why your SEA and ANC LEC's are upset? Go ask them, they have seen the business plan. So have the arbitrators. Also, look to see a lot more NONSTOPS from ATL to Asia soon, like HKG upcoming. Also, I have heard our 767-400s will continue to go from ATL to HNL, but then onward to NRT and KIX, and maybe Nagoya. Can't wait.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Why, because some mid to low seniority Delta pilot says so. laughable. Keep grabbing at straws...... Looks to me like you are getting nervous.....

Getting nervous? Like your MEC? Have you heard about the infighting? We have. Looks like the nervous ones are in ANC and SEA, and for good reason. Grabbing at straws, huh? Like going for DOH and hoping that we come to something in "the middle?" Riight. Look at precedent(ask the USAir East guys), and then read the ALPA merger policy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

Getting nervous? Like your MEC? Have you heard about the infighting? We have. Looks like the nervous ones are in ANC and SEA, and for good reason. Grabbing at straws, huh? Like going for DOH and hoping that we come to something in "the middle?" Riight. Look at precedent(ask the USAir East guys), and then read the ALPA merger policy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok Buttwipe. Every MEC since the beginning of time has in-fighting. I personally think some SEA reps and a couple ANC reps are tools, but that is just my opinion. I guess you would fall to your knees for all your reps huh?Remember months ago when some Delta pilots were trying to recall some of your LEC reps? Those pesky facts again.

As far as DOH, there have been dozens of DOH awards and don't think for a minute that the screwed up Nicalau award will be the only one they look at. ALPA merger policy was thrown out when the two mec agreed to expedited arbitration and has NEVER been the precedent, only a guideline.

Geez, can you get any facts right?

I'll give you one more chance, why do you want a category ratio when you know that it hurts NWA pilots? Why do you want to enjoy the massive move up over the last few years and then move up even more when NWA pilots retire? Because we may park planes or we get the priveledge of being a Delta pilot? Thats your argument? Remember, if planes are parked, they are all Delta planes now. I am sure Bloch will act accordingly