NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

[Voice Of Reason]

No, I fully understand what you're saying.
(NO you don't)
It was NW pilots/management that signed the contract that didn't give them longevity. That's what they bring.
(Wrong. It WAS negotiated for them, just not IMPLEMENTED yet due to their merger transition team delays that may or may not extend past the time it takes to get a final SLI) Maybe they negotiated it away for the senior guys to keep their retirement, which all DL pilots lost, or some other contract provision. I don't know.

I told you a few posts ago: c: it's in arbitration

You either honestly don't read/understand what the issue is...or it's part of the distraction technique by one group of NEW HIRES trying to UNFAIRLY gain longevity over another group of NEW HIRES hired BEFORE them.

 

[Noserider76]

You either honestly don't read/understand what the issue is...or it's part of the distraction technique by one group of NEW HIRES trying to UNFAIRLY gain longevity over another group of NEW HIRES hired BEFORE them.

Dude, are you dense? I'm nowhere near a newhire and as I said it's in ARBITRATION. The NW new hires came to work under a NW contract. They signed up under, worked under, and lived under a NW contract. Now it's up to the negotiators and arbitrators whether they are brought up to the DL contract for purposes of the SLI. Over and out.........

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Dude, are you dense?

Apparently YOU are....
Argh (is it any wonder RIF is still so important? Reading IS indeed Fundamental)
Do yourself a favor and let it go if you didn't understand the issue AT ALL. You're just confusing those who might have actually been able to address it as POSTED by me, not whatever you keep throwing in there that is NOT what I am talking about.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You either honestly don't read/understand what the issue is...or it's part of the distraction technique by one group of NEW HIRES trying to UNFAIRLY gain longevity over another group of NEW HIRES hired BEFORE them.

The only people gaining longevity are the nwa guys that were furloughed.

You're confusing seniority over longevity again.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The only people gaining longevity are the nwa guys that were furloughed.

So then they WILL be making the bottom NWA guys 2nd class citizens and not bring them into the JOINT contract in that respect????

Even NOT YET hired pilots will get quicker PROBATION LONGEVITY than them?

Wow. Talk about f-ed up thinking in the JOINT (but not really) contract (to be implemented in sections at unannounced undetermined times).

SOME NWA pilots' longevity is adjusted in the name of parity but not the rest of the NWA pilots?????

YEAH...that's "fair" and equal.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Anyone know?:

DATE of the Original Merger Announcement?
(ie: the date where those on the property partake in equity)

Last NW class dates BEFORE that announcement date?

Last DL class dates before that announcement date?

Are they at least doing DOH for all those in classes AFTER that date?

 

[clippyrip]

Dude, are you dense? I'm nowhere near a newhire and as I said it's in ARBITRATION. The NW new hires came to work under a NW contract. They signed up under, worked under, and lived under a NW contract. Now it's up to the negotiators and arbitrators whether they are brought up to the DL contract for purposes of the SLI. Over and out.........

We all brought ourselves up to the new contract rates predicated on the merger.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

So then they WILL be making the bottom NWA guys 2nd class citizens and not bring them into the JOINT contract in that respect????

Even NOT YET hired pilots will get quicker PROBATION LONGEVITY than them?

Wow. Talk about f-ed up thinking in the JOINT (but not really) contract (to be implemented in sections at unannounced undetermined times).

SOME NWA pilots' longevity is adjusted in the name of parity but not the rest of the NWA pilots?????

YEAH...that's "fair" and equal.

What on earth are you talking about? The NWA guys got brought up to our pay rates yesterday. All NWA guys who got furloughed (their own company did not recognize their years of furlough as years of service) got their longevity increased from 1 or 2 years to 8 or so years- they were already getting a large pay bump as it was and then add that to it.



When the merger was announced doesnt matter in regards to newhires. It could have been shot down at any time. It is only when the merger goes through that anything counts.

USair was still trying to takeover DL when I started newhire class, for example.

 

[FDJ2]

PER THE ARBITRATORS:

"The first, of course, is to create a list that recognizes the prevailing equities of the new relationship, some points on that, just a small digression. Numerous witnesses have alluded to the fact that this is a conglomeration of equals. You differ as to how equal, but I think Dr.Campbell was essentially correct in speaking of this being a merger and not some sort of an acquisition. I don't hear any serious argument from either side that one company is the savior of the other in this. And secondly, there is no doubt that you -- and I know that we -- will not cure the inequities, real or perceived, of the past, nor can we isolate or insulate anyone against the vagaries of the future. Talk about career expectations in this industry is a little like dreaming about income expectations and investment opportunities at a roulette table."

So we are left with the two issues which will determine the list. "The first, of course, is to create a list that recognizes the prevailing equities of the new relationship" and "talk about career expectations in this industry is a little like dreaming about income expectations and investment opportunities at a roulette table."

Looks like a snapshot and a ratioed integration based on current jobs brought to the merger. That's consistant with every ALPA merger since DOH was removed from ALPA merger policy.

 

[FDJ2]

We all brought ourselves up to the new contract rates predicated on the merger.

Just that some were brought up more than others.