NWA/DAL Arbitration hearing

[Cobraair75drvr]

Whats his name?

Not the Fed in ATL I am married to eh!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Yeah, we had a whole different manual set a few years ago. While there are some elements of the Boeing books that I like, overall I think I liked the older DAL manuals better. I wish we would go to the NWA books, though I suspect it will be Boeing (Airbus).

Yeah unfortunately the decision has already been made. The NWA guys are gonna get a series of revisions over the next year converting them to our system.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yep, we are going the Delta way. Plane, Path, Pilot.

 

[Fly4hire]

Can you guys get all your manuals in PDF format from your Flight Ops web site? We have the option of electronic versions for all our aircraft operating manuals (still have to have paper in the flight deck). Revision = download the latest version. I suppose at DAL you have to pick the cotton to make the paper to print your own....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

everything is available pdf on the website.

 

[800Dog]

Whats his name?

Its name is Pat!

 

[Fly4hire]

everything is available pdf on the website.

Thanks! Do they allow PDF in lieu of paper docs for required issue (except required flight deck manuals)?

 

[General Lee]

Heyas Cobra,

Right you are. RA's problem is that, barring some kind of novel mechanism, there ARE going to be some kind of fences, and by the looks of direction that the arbitration is going, fairly tall ones.

This is exactly what he didn't want. Mind you, the arbitrators are under ZERO obligation to the company, only to the parties directly involved, and they have said that their goal will be to find the solutions that the most people will find acceptable.

What RA does with this is anyone's guess. He can nuke the whole thing, saying it "costs too much", but that treds into unchartered legal waters not to mention throwing a carefully crafted deal into chaos. He can park aircraft that are fenced, but that only raises the "replacement aircraft" spectre, with subsequent arbitrations (this gets expensive for the company REAL quick).

I will grant that the mechanics of a dynamic list is full of details. But we have smart guys working on the problem, and they can be ironed out with a solid methodology. Once that is done, the boils down to pressing a button once, twice or 12 times a year to produce a list. With DALs "once a year" AE system, it should hardly be time consuming.

Nu

Your A320 FO on the stand was "blown away" by our lawyer, finally admitting that attrition has NEVER been a part of ANY seniority list integration, ever. He told him to stop making speeches, and just answer the question. Classic. Dynamic lists just don't work, and we have more retirements eventually than you do.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Thanks! Do they allow PDF in lieu of paper docs for required issue (except required flight deck manuals)?

No one ever really mentions that.. the FO only has to carry the OM1 (your equivalent of sopa/smac plus supplementals), and the CA only has to carry the FOM.

I think everyone keeps up their paper manuals though. The only version of the PWA that I carry is on my computer.

 

[jonjuan]

Your A320 FO on the stand was "blown away" by our lawyer, finally admitting that attrition has NEVER been a part of ANY seniority list integration, ever.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Not to mention that with the recent loss of $30 trilion in wealth with the stock market equity drop, you can bet that the majority of those who were planning to retire at 60 will now keep flying.

 

[JohnQ]

Thanks! Do they allow PDF in lieu of paper docs for required issue (except required flight deck manuals)?

We are all issued the following (pardon me if some of this is common knowledge):

- FOM: Flight Operations Manual: all fleet common DAL policies and procedures. Captain is required to carry, F/O is not.
- Vol 1: Operations Manual, Vol 1, which is all the normal and supplementary checklists. All pilots carry.
- Vol 2: Systems Book. No one must carry (but must be in paper form in the cockpit). You are also supposed to take it with you to recurrent, but I have never seen anyone do it.
- FCTM: Flight Crew Training Manual. This is the manual fully describing lots of different maneuvers, both normal and "non-normal." This is not required to be carried by any crewmember, nor is it required in the cockpit. You are required to take it to training--again, not everyone does.
- Jepp charts and approach plates. Paper form in your flight kit, required for all pilots except the "B" captain on 4-pilot crews (most 777 flying, for example).

So where do all our non-normal/abnormal checklists come from? From the QRH--Quick Reference Handbook, two copies of which are kept in every DAL aircraft. Whenever you have a non-normal, you comply with the boldface (if any) then break out the QRH and follow the procedure. I love the idea in theory. And for the most part it works pretty well. However, sometimes I feel the QRH is written for the lowest common denominator--like a 3rd world pilot who barely speaks English...hey, I think that is exactly who it is written for!

ALL the above are available in .pdf format from the Flt Ops website. However, that fact does not alter any required-to-carry policy as spelled out in the FOM.

 

[patrickdc9]

Your A320 FO on the stand was "blown away" by our lawyer, finally admitting that attrition has NEVER been a part of ANY seniority list integration, ever. He told him to stop making speeches, and just answer the question. Classic. Dynamic lists just don't work, and we have more retirements eventually than you do.

Bye Bye--General Lee

It's a sad day when a fellow pilot gloats that one of "his" lawyers beat up another fellow, and future brother pilot.

General, you sir are a low-life.

 

[DTW320]

It's a sad day when a fellow pilot gloats that one of "his" lawyers beat up another fellow, and future brother pilot.

General, you sir are a low-life.

Not to mention that his claims are 100% USDA BullSh@t. Read the transcript of 10/24. NWA's G.A. absolutely mopped the floor with the DALPA lawyer. It made for great reading but you almost felt sorry for the lawyer....almost.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I even asked myself why he did not ask about your retirement historical data only being eight months old, and only using the time when you had a program in effect.

 

[Heavy Set]

Not to mention that his claims are 100% USDA BullSh@t. Read the transcript of 10/24. NWA's G.A. absolutely mopped the floor with the DALPA lawyer. It made for great reading but you almost felt sorry for the lawyer....almost.

I didn't read the transcripts, but did that FO say (as GenLEE states) that attrition has never been used in a merger of seniority lists? If so, that wouldn't be good for you guys I would think.