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Comair Furloughing 300
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contrail67
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DontFeedTheBear
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So, are you saying that it didn't suck when it was only legacies? I'm sure you are one of those who says that mainline pilots snub you...and wonder why???
Yogi
waka
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If someone comments how much it sucks that CAL is furloughing after UAL announced furloughs doesn't mean they're saying it doesn't suck about UAL. It just means more bad news. More bad news sucks. You're reading too much into his statement. Cut down on the caffeine pal.
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contrail67
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Hey Yogi....
Back off of the honey dude...just saying it sucks..thats all. The focus has been at the legacy airlines...which I work for...not good when it goes to the regionals as well....
ACL65PILOT
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Stifler's Mom
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Benjamin Dover
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Hmmm. The regional guys didn't seem to mind too much about their rapid expansion post -911 while legacy guys were being furloughed.
Oh well, maybe Delta will hire furloughed Comair pilots just like Comair hired furloughed Delta pilots .... :erm:
Flybet3
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He should work for FOX news.
FmrFreightDog
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J.H.C. Can we, honestly, get past this kind of crap already.... Comair didn't hire Delta furloughees, 2002 ASA newhires were overheard in the DFW terminal celebrating all the "new flying" they were getting while mainline Delta guys were hitting the street, American was flowing down to Eagle far in excess of those who flowed up, American was bending over TWA as well now that I think about it.. the industry pretty well sucked for several years. Then it got back on it's feet.... finally... for about 9 months.... and here we go again.
I'm rambling. I'll stop. My only point is that, unless oil reverses course drastically (which it will not), we are in for a few years that will make the 9-11 aftermath look silly. We're all going to hurt here, folks. There will be furloughs everywhere (yeah, I know.... not Southwest.... but if this lasts long enough, even they will be feeling this pain.) Now is not the time to be rubbing salt into old wounds. There are going to be plenty of mainline guys and regional guys rubbing shoulders in the unemployment lines soon enough. It's about time we let bygones be bygones I think. There's going to be far to much sh!t fighting against us in the near future to afford us the luxury of fighting amongst ourselves.
I hope some of that makes sense. I'm far too tired to proofread it and, quite frankly, the Bourbon is doing most of the talking at this point...
Jonny Sacko
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airlinepilot
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Bob_Sacamano
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Sure, since Delta pilots are responsible for who the company hires, just like the Comair pilots were responsible for hiring at their carrier. Troll...
FlyingSig
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Sure, since Delta pilots are responsible for who the company hires, just like the Comair pilots were responsible for hiring at their carrier. Troll...
....
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']TO: Comair Pilots[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.
The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.
The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:
We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.
Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:
Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.
The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.
COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533
[/FONT]
Care to restate that?
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skiddriver
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I think you'll find that the pilots to be furloughed at Comair weren't on property when the MEC decided to refuse to help get furloughed Delta pilots the right to hire on without resigning from Delta.
To get someone who was a voting member of the union at Comair when that occured you'd have to go back to pre-2002 hires.
So your mean spirited glee at the Comair furloughees' coming difficulties is directed at the wrong people.
To get someone who was a voting member of the union at Comair when that occured you'd have to go back to pre-2002 hires.
So your mean spirited glee at the Comair furloughees' coming difficulties is directed at the wrong people.
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XJohXJ
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Mistakes were made by Regional pilots.
Mistakes were made by Legacy/Mainline pilots.
Mistakes were made by non-union pilots.
Mistakes were made by ALPA pilots.
Didn't you're parents ever teach you that we are all human and everyone makes mistakes?
Didn't you're parents ever teach you that everyone makes decisions which they will later regret?
Hell, even a casual TV watcher knows the truth of "Live together, did alone.."
And we all know damn well that management understands the value of the ancient technique of "divide and conquer".
Many pilots are trying to take steps towards INCREASING unity. Sure, there is no shortage of bad blood from bad decisions made in the past. A lot of the folks (not all) responsible are already retired and gone. There is movement now to try to build unity within some brands across pilot groups. ALPA is even at least beginning to take steps to establish cooperation between pilot groups.
It's time to put the past behind us and work together to save our future. Otherwise it will only be the management groups that continue to obscenely profit from all of this mess we are in.
It's time to grow up again and start working together.
Yeah, I know, time to get off the soapbox...
Mistakes were made by Legacy/Mainline pilots.
Mistakes were made by non-union pilots.
Mistakes were made by ALPA pilots.
Didn't you're parents ever teach you that we are all human and everyone makes mistakes?
Didn't you're parents ever teach you that everyone makes decisions which they will later regret?
Hell, even a casual TV watcher knows the truth of "Live together, did alone.."
And we all know damn well that management understands the value of the ancient technique of "divide and conquer".
Many pilots are trying to take steps towards INCREASING unity. Sure, there is no shortage of bad blood from bad decisions made in the past. A lot of the folks (not all) responsible are already retired and gone. There is movement now to try to build unity within some brands across pilot groups. ALPA is even at least beginning to take steps to establish cooperation between pilot groups.
It's time to put the past behind us and work together to save our future. Otherwise it will only be the management groups that continue to obscenely profit from all of this mess we are in.
It's time to grow up again and start working together.
Yeah, I know, time to get off the soapbox...
Capn Butthead
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Allright.........im tired of this.
I was a Comair pilot for a long time. By the grace of God I was able to move on. I was on strike there and went through 9/11 like everyone. I am very thankful for everyone Mainline and Regional pilots who supported us and who all came together to help each other out. These are very tough times for ALL!
With that being said, I know that it sucked that Comair did not hire Delta people. Why didnt they? I dont know. It was never put to a vote to the pilots.
BUT, go back and check the notes from 2000 when Comair pilots wanted to merge seniority lists for Delta and Delta Connection. Your egos about small jets hid you from the truth. I dont know of anyone at Comair who wanted a one for one. Most people wanted a staple with a furlough fence. It was stated that there may be a point in time where Mainline was getting rid of people while at the same time the regionals (all of them!) were hiring. Your mec turned a cold shoulder to that! So.........it is a screw up by BOTH mec's. Ego's got the best of everyone.
I always wanted to go to Southwest, so I am very happy. I never applied to Delta so I was not looking for a free ticket to Delta. I like the flying and the people at SWA so thats why I wanted to come here. With that said I have a lot or respect for you guys. Yall do some very difficult flying that is very challenging. I have never once said anything bad about Delta pilots.
Just food for thought
I was a Comair pilot for a long time. By the grace of God I was able to move on. I was on strike there and went through 9/11 like everyone. I am very thankful for everyone Mainline and Regional pilots who supported us and who all came together to help each other out. These are very tough times for ALL!
With that being said, I know that it sucked that Comair did not hire Delta people. Why didnt they? I dont know. It was never put to a vote to the pilots.
BUT, go back and check the notes from 2000 when Comair pilots wanted to merge seniority lists for Delta and Delta Connection. Your egos about small jets hid you from the truth. I dont know of anyone at Comair who wanted a one for one. Most people wanted a staple with a furlough fence. It was stated that there may be a point in time where Mainline was getting rid of people while at the same time the regionals (all of them!) were hiring. Your mec turned a cold shoulder to that! So.........it is a screw up by BOTH mec's. Ego's got the best of everyone.
I always wanted to go to Southwest, so I am very happy. I never applied to Delta so I was not looking for a free ticket to Delta. I like the flying and the people at SWA so thats why I wanted to come here. With that said I have a lot or respect for you guys. Yall do some very difficult flying that is very challenging. I have never once said anything bad about Delta pilots.
Just food for thought
acarpe3448
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While I dont like to hear anyone losing their job, I sadly say that I for one really dont lose any sleep over the Comair pilots. During our furlough postt 9-11 the Comair pilots were all about looking out for themselves. They could not have given a $hit about any of us being on the street for 3 years. They made a senority grab, they filed the RJDC lawsuit so they could under cut us and get as many aircraft, as much flying, and as big an aircraft as possible at the expense of our pilots, myself included. Comair pilots wrote up that bull$hit clause that said for dumb reasons they did not support hiring our pilots unless they resigned their senortiy numbers. Comair pilots have always thaught of themselves only, and this could not happen to a nicer group of pilots. My big question is to see how well they treat their own furloughed pilots. Will they be providing cobra payments, will they be sending Christmas checks? Let me know if anyone needs to know how to extend your unemployment benefits? Life is fair!
Bob_Sacamano
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acarpe3448
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ASA pilots did not fight having furloughed Delta pilots fly there. As far as who is being furloughed at Comair, does not matter. Their shrinking and furloughing, taste the $hit sandwich! Lots of job opportunities at Macd's, or KFC!
Bob_Sacamano
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Boy, what a classy guy. It appears that the Comair MEC made the right call in keeping caring individuals like yourself away. With $140 oil, you should try and be a bit nicer. Delta certainly isn't out of the woods yet. Ever hear of karma?
Because, like any pilot who enjoys seeing other pilots lose their jobs, he's a jerkoff.....
PuffDriver
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Nope. It was all Comair. Sorry, but true. To the Comair junior guys on the board, I truly feel for your position. Hopefully, your pilots will take care of you as our pilots took care of our furloughed with regard to monetary and health care issues.
Delta pilots played their part fine. They were willing to expend negotiating capital on flow through agreements with our wholly owneds. Your senior, however, wanted more than Delta pilots were willing to give. They wanted our seats, and overplayed their hand with regard to making a power play. On your way out the door that they are holding open for you from back in the early part of the decade, you might take a moment to poo in their flight case.
All Delta pilots realize that these furloughees were not the ones responsible, and it is really too bad that it has to be this way.
Perhaps Compass might be a good place to relocate, as there will be good relations and flow agreements in place.
My sincere condolences to you, if indeed the furlough materializes.
That depends on the motive of the thread starter. If his purpose was to was whack a hornets' nest the Majors board would be the perfect place for it. It would appear that he has succeeded admirably.
Bob_Sacamano
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Strangely enough, I feel like it was all Delta. Like the ones I remember heckling us while we were walking on the picket lines. Of course, I'm sure you're one of the 4000 Delta guys who claims he brought pizza and coffee over to our strike center, or walked the line with us. Funny thing is, I was there probably 75 of the 89 days, and the only guest-walkers I recall had a photographer with them. As for bringing food and drinks, that did indeed happen...about 4 times I was there, and it was greatly appreciated. There are clearly tons of awesome Delta guys. But guys like A"crap"e who delight in others' misfortune aren't one of them.
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