Hugh Johnson
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Comair Furloughing 300
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PuffDriver
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Yep, you're right here it is, my original post:
Nope. It was all Comair. Sorry, but true. To the Comair junior guys on the board, I truly feel for your position. Hopefully, your pilots will take care of you as our pilots took care of our furloughed with regard to monetary and health care issues.
Delta pilots played their part fine. They were willing to expend negotiating capital on flow through agreements with our wholly owneds. Your senior, however, wanted more than Delta pilots were willing to give. They wanted our seats, and overplayed their hand with regard to making a power play. On your way out the door that they are holding open for you from back in the early part of the decade, you might take a moment to poo in their flight case.
All Delta pilots realize that these furloughees were not the ones responsible, and it is really too bad that it has to be this way.
Perhaps Compass might be a good place to relocate, as there will be good relations and flow agreements in place.
My sincere condolences to you, if indeed the furlough materializes.
Just a ton of "delight" there. It practically exudes "delight". Then we come to the little gem of pulling out the Delta BK card. Yep, we went BK. Can't hide from it. So did Comair. But, once again, it's off topic since the poster can't seem to find a coherent argument ON topic. Or we could talk about the "I told you so's" from your buddies with Delta pilots being furloughed. Or we could talk about the Comair captains who WERE around who will now be swinging gear in the near future. Or we could speculate about how many more a/c Comair will be parking, or how many more 777s Delta will be ordering.
The message is simple, your 15 minutes are over, and it is your lackluster MEC--you know the ones holding a mini strike because they are not getting their 95 hour months without releasing a parking brake--and their hand holding with the RJDC who are to blame.
Game, set , and match. It's like shooting fish in a barrel, it's just too bad that innocent f/os have to pay the price, and that the furlough cannot happen from the top down. Of course, those f/os will skate over to other jobs and be just fine. We shall soon find out the future of the upper crust. Karma is indeed a bitch, and she's back in heat.
flyboyike
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What other jobs?
PuffDriver
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Take a look at some of the web sites out there. There are places hiring.
I would imagine that Pinnacle is/will be hiring. I would imagine that the Chautauqua/Republic folks may be hiring. There are jobs out there. Are you one of the Comair f/os in the crosshairs?
flyboyike
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No, not in the crosshairs, at least not yet. No thanks about Pinnacle. Republic will be furloughing about 400 from the sound of it. Same with Expressjet, but thank you for the good wishes.
PuffDriver
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How about Compass?
flyboyike
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So I can be furloughed when your DC-9-driving brothers flow back?
Scope out RJ's
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And you get back to polishing joemerchant's knob.
PuffDriver
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..and have recall rights to an airline with a future. that is, if you would get furloughed at all. Or just sit around like all of the other Comair guys and blame the Delta pilots.
It's always somebody else's fault, after all.
I'll leave you guys to cry the last word. I'll help, waaaahhhhhhhhhhh. My sympathy is waning.
uke:
flyboyike
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..and have recall rights to an airline with a future. that is, if you would get furloughed at all. Or just sit around like all of the other Comair guys and blame the Delta pilots.
It's always somebody else's fault, after all.
I'll leave you guys to cry the last word. I'll help, waaaahhhhhhhhhhh. My sympathy is waning.
What sympathy?
PuffDriver
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I guess you can't read either. Oh well, I tried. You just can't fix stoopid. See ya.
Karma, it's a bitch, and she's back in heat.
I feel bad for those guys/gals that will have thier career aspirations put on hold for a while.
But, if you are one of the bottom 300 at Comair, you can probably work at McDonalds and make more money than you were at Comair....and be home every night to boot!
The reality is that I can't understand why anyone would want to work in this industry for $19 an hour. But I guess to each his own... Best of luck to all who are getting furloughed (I've been there before and it sucks)
But, if you are one of the bottom 300 at Comair, you can probably work at McDonalds and make more money than you were at Comair....and be home every night to boot!
The reality is that I can't understand why anyone would want to work in this industry for $19 an hour. But I guess to each his own... Best of luck to all who are getting furloughed (I've been there before and it sucks)
imacdog
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That would be a big negative ol buddy. As stated before, all furloughs have had nothing to do with the Comair/Delta squabble or pay for training at Comair. Still, it's great to see so-called professionals in this industry acting as if they are getting some sort of justice out of this.
captainv
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For us Comair guys, I guess it's easy to forget that after 9/11, during a period of explosive growth for us (and most other regionals), 1/3 of the Delta pilots were furloughed and didn't come back for several years.
now that Comair has shrunk by a 1/3 (176 aircraft down to the new total, 114), the shoe is on the other foot. up until now, our guys have left voluntarily, hopefully for greener pastures. no longer.
it sucked for them, it will suck for us. in both cases, the furloughs are due to the decisions made by DAL management. IMO, the actions of DALPA, CMR MEC, RJDC have little effect on the outcome, but if it makes y'all feel better to blame each other rather than management, so be it.
now that Comair has shrunk by a 1/3 (176 aircraft down to the new total, 114), the shoe is on the other foot. up until now, our guys have left voluntarily, hopefully for greener pastures. no longer.
it sucked for them, it will suck for us. in both cases, the furloughs are due to the decisions made by DAL management. IMO, the actions of DALPA, CMR MEC, RJDC have little effect on the outcome, but if it makes y'all feel better to blame each other rather than management, so be it.
Grinder10
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What does Pinnacle have to do with anything? Did they get flying that was "supposed to be yours"? I guess you could also say "No thanks to Skywest, ASA, Repulic, Chautauqua, etc." Just about every regional in the country as at one point "taken" flying from another regional. Get used to it because that's the way the business goes.
4got2flare
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Half of the Comair Pilots from 2001 have quit and moved on. Where are they? Everywhere, even Delta...
Why, They moved to greener pastures for their own reasons. However in 2001, a group of pilots finally stood their ground and said close the doors if you need to but we are done. Delta didn't let that happen did they.....
You say nothing was gained but I beg to differ...
1. Pay (top captain from $69 to $118) Changed in BK
2. Trip and Duty Rigs (none to Min day, Duty, and Trip) Changed in BK
3. Retirement (none to B Plan) Lost in BK
4. Work rule changes.... Again BK that Delta took them into...
So to ridicule a group who drew a line in the sand when you would never put your job on the line is moronic. This industry has a problem that is from the bottom to the top. Everyone dreams of the 747/777 CA seat getting paid 200+/hr but the only way to get there is to pay ones dues. Spend your time in a RJ/Prop/Military for a couple of years depending on the economy, then push to move on, if your lucky and have the right contacts.
Now the problem. Everyone is so fixated on the end game that they will do anything to get in the door. They will take any job at any price with any rules to get in the door. Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind? The attitude of I got mine screw off has to stop.
For some posters that keep pushing the KARMA line I hope your not a believer, if so you just might be next in the crosshairs.....
Never forget where you came from and always help those that follow behind.......
I wish all the best
Why, They moved to greener pastures for their own reasons. However in 2001, a group of pilots finally stood their ground and said close the doors if you need to but we are done. Delta didn't let that happen did they.....
You say nothing was gained but I beg to differ...
1. Pay (top captain from $69 to $118) Changed in BK
2. Trip and Duty Rigs (none to Min day, Duty, and Trip) Changed in BK
3. Retirement (none to B Plan) Lost in BK
4. Work rule changes.... Again BK that Delta took them into...
So to ridicule a group who drew a line in the sand when you would never put your job on the line is moronic. This industry has a problem that is from the bottom to the top. Everyone dreams of the 747/777 CA seat getting paid 200+/hr but the only way to get there is to pay ones dues. Spend your time in a RJ/Prop/Military for a couple of years depending on the economy, then push to move on, if your lucky and have the right contacts.
Now the problem. Everyone is so fixated on the end game that they will do anything to get in the door. They will take any job at any price with any rules to get in the door. Everyone at that company is again fixated on moving on so they forget to fight to make it a better place for the future. Will you get involved to raise the bar for those that follow behind? The attitude of I got mine screw off has to stop.
For some posters that keep pushing the KARMA line I hope your not a believer, if so you just might be next in the crosshairs.....
Never forget where you came from and always help those that follow behind.......
I wish all the best
imacdog
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Not even that PFT whore PCL_128 recommends people go to Pinnacle. Granted no one listens to what he said before he was banned anyway but the point was, there is a limit on how crappy of a job some people are willing to take.
CFI2766
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Easy, there big guy, stop making sense. Most of the posters here will stop reading if you continue this line of non-flameworthy thought! :beer:
Seriously, Good form.
One point, though:
This is a nice thought, but the past and the present have shown what happens to those who 'raise the bar' at the regional level. The vertical mobility of 'the bar' is severely limited when another pilot group will do any flying for 1 penny less than what it is currently being done. I.E., the last groups of regional guys to get industry leading contracts have slowly, systematically undergone a downsizing. What lesson does that leave for those still at the regionals?
(As well, there is nothing wrong with wanting to move to a bigger airplane, and potentially bigger paycheck. Equally acceptable, there is nothing wrong with wanting to stay at the top of a regional seniority list and enjoy good pay and decent QOL. No need to bash either aspiration, IMO.)
My point here is that self interest has trumped unity, and there is nothing that any one of the individual players can do about it and still remain in the game.
PuffDriver
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Ok, a good contract. The point was, and listen carefully here, how much of that list was gained PRE-strike and which items were gained POST-strike. You like to make a big deal that you struck. I get it. My question is what did your large cajones gain you over what you already had before walking in circles? Hint: your list is MUCH MUCH shorter.
To say that Delta pilots have not put their jobs on the line is disingenuous at best. Delta pilots have much more to lose with no company that you do, have much more of a sword to wield than you--sort of like the USA's nuke arsenal pointed at Russia vs Vatican City's nuke arsenal pointed at Russia--and the company simply cannot weather a strike from the Delta pilots when they obviously can from the Comair pilots.
Yes we have hired some Comair pilots post RJDC, but you can count them without having to use toes versus Skywest and ASA.
The Delta pilots have done plenty for those left behind. The problem was that there were some guys who wanted the Delta pilots to carry their water for them, and then wanted the Delta pilots water as well. The regionals were never meant to be a career. Some have made it so. So be it. They can try and make their lives better all they want, until they start f****** with MY livlihood. Then the gloves come off.
The original intent of my participation in this thread was to express my condolences to the guys in the crosshairs and to correct the misconception that this is the Delta pilots fault. It is not, NONE of it. The blame can be pointed squarely at your weak MEC along with the RJDC crowd.
I'd like to continue, but my interest, and care, have waned. Besides, it is in the regional thread now.
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