ALL Flying will performed by AA pilots

[PCL_128]

Wrong. You weren't there so whoever is feeding you that and the part about Comair and ASA MECs demanding DOH is either a liar or passing on a lie.

People that I trust were there, and all are in agreement about what happened. Were you there?

 

[N2264J]

Were you there?

Yes, I was.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Its like a wedding couple.. both were there yet they have a completely different recolection...

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, I was.

Guess that means somebody is lying, then. And since the guys that disagree with you are the ones that didn't try to sue their union and go for a seniority grab, I think they have a lot more credibility.

 

[CFI2766]

Wow, fantastic, we've rehased a few years of ASA/Comair/Delta MEC relations. We've accomplished a lot. Good job!

Moron(s).

 

[CFI2766]

Are there any logical reasons why one list, perhaps with fences, would be a bad idea for pilots?

How much will it cost? Who cares? Is there anyone who doesn't think that this is the best possible time to ask for and get changes?

 

[PCL_128]

Are there any logical reasons why one list, perhaps with fences, would be a bad idea for pilots?

How much will it cost? Who cares? Is there anyone who doesn't think that this is the best possible time to ask for and get changes?

I think you'll find that a lot of the senior Captains at your airline will raise a big fuss about being stapled to the bottom of the mainline list. As much as some RJDC supporters like to deny it, there are plenty of 20+ year regional guys that think they're owed a widebody left seat if an integration takes place.

 

[N2264J]

I think you'll find that a lot of the senior Captains at your airline will raise a big fuss about being stapled to the bottom of the mainline list....there are plenty of 20+ year regional guys that think they're owed a widebody left seat if an integration takes place.

So after you say it should be done no matter what the cost, you suggest it shouldn't be done because there are 20+ year Captains at Eagle who may feel DOH with fences is appropriate?

You're saying that single list merger negotiations at AA are impossible because some Eagle pilots will think a staple is unsatisfactory?

 

[PCL_128]

So after you say it should be done no matter what the cost, you suggest it shouldn't be done because there are 20+ year Captains at Eagle who may feel DOH with fences is appropriate?

You're saying that single list merger negotiations at AA are impossible because some Eagle pilots will think a staple is unsatisfactory?

I was merely answering the man's question about who would be opposed to such an idea. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done because of that. To the contrary, I think it should be done, and I don't think there would be any problem in getting the majority of the EGL pilots to approve such a measure. We'll just have to listen to a bunch of cranky old EGL geezers whine for the next decade about being stapled to the bottom of the AMR list.

 

[CFI2766]

I think you'll find that a lot of the senior Captains at your airline will raise a big fuss about being stapled to the bottom of the mainline list. As much as some RJDC supporters like to deny it, there are plenty of 20+ year regional guys that think they're owed a widebody left seat if an integration takes place.

I'm at the bottom of a list that would be stapled to the bottom of another list. Thus, it's not too palatable for me in the short run. However, in the long run, this idea, of one list for one pilot group, would be tremendously beneficial to every professional pilot.

If a few 20+ year oldsters get their feathers ruffled, so be it. TFB. (As was pointed out to me very recently with regards to bonus distrubution monies, what's just is in the eye of the majority vote holder.) There's no way that senior folks at AA, or Delta, United, or NWA, for that matter, would allow an old regional guy to skip in line up to a wide-body. Therefore, the oldster's issue is a non-starter and shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

For the sake of the entire profession, I hope that this idea gains traction. Unfortunatetly, it will have to be an all or nothing endeavor. There's no way AA can compete with a single seniority list while all the other majors enjoy lower cost flying through their multiple regional carriers.

 

[PCL_128]

If a few 20+ year oldsters get their feathers ruffled, so be it. TFB.

Amen to that.

 

[CFI2766]

Amen to that.

I, for one, very much like the idea of potentially being able to start right seat in an RJ and have the potential to wind up left seat in a 777 many years down the road. I suspect many, many folks have the same preference.

The way the regionals are set up right now, this isn't necessarily the case.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

And the old guys who are stapled will get to fly (at least) 5 more years which will help them with their retirement situation.

cliff
GRB

 

[PCL_128]

Hi!

And the old guys who are stapled will get to fly (at least) 5 more years which will help them with their retirement situation.

cliff
GRB

Not if some of us have anything to say about it.

 

[CFI2766]

Hi!

And the old guys who are stapled will get to fly (at least) 5 more years which will help them with their retirement situation.

cliff
GRB

Awww he!!, one fight at a time.

(For the record, tho, I think that if they can pass the medical, then they should be allowed to fly. Given the history of airline hiring/firing, there has never been a better time for the overall pilot group than now to make this change. Make this change when all the airlines are laying people off, and the sh!t really would hit the fan.)

 

[Flyby1206]

One list with fences and payrates as atpcliff laid out would be great. Staple AE to the bottom of AA list, those at AE who are afraid of this can chose to bid a form of Eagle Rights which caps them at 70 seat a/c and they wont be able to advance to anything bigger, nor will they be displaced or furloughed unless by another Eagle Rights guy. I would guess 200-400 out of the 3000 AE pilots would chose this.

By having everything from 19seaters to 777s one one list it would allow the bottom of the seniority list (cheapest labor) to be flying the smallest equip. There wouldnt be nearly as many 20yr CAs flying RJs, saving the company money. Recruiting dept could raise the minimums and still have a stack of applicants trying to get their all important seniority number to plan a career at one carrier (AA).

 

[N2264J]

I was merely answering the man's question about who would be opposed to such an idea. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done because of that. To the contrary, I think it should be done...

So if a regional guy proposes consolidation within the brand, it's a seniority grab but when the mainliners do it, they're saving the profession.

Did I get that right?

 

[PCL_128]

So if a regional guy proposes consolidation within the brand, it's a seniority grab but when the mainliners do it, they're saving the profession.

Did I get that right?

Are you really this dense, or do you just pretend to be? Trying to weasel your way into 20 years of mainline seniority is a seniority grab. That's what your RJDC buddies tried to do. A mainline group trying to negotiate for a single list isn't a seniority grab, because they already own the seniority. Really, this isn't that complicated.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are you really this dense, or do you just pretend to be? Trying to weasel your way into 20 years of mainline seniority is a seniority grab. That's what your RJDC buddies tried to do. A mainline group trying to negotiate for a single list isn't a seniority grab, because they already own the seniority. Really, this isn't that complicated.

How would we have "weaseled" our way into 20 years of mainline seniority? Any merger at ASA/CMR/DAL would have been in accordance with ALPA merger policy...... Are you saying that would have complied with ALPA merger policy?

The "seniority grab" argument was fabricated by the DAL MEC to scare DAL pilots, and it worked like a charm.

It isn't fair for a 20 year RJ pilot to bump a 777 pilot out of his seat....... AND it is EQUALLY unfair for a mainline newhire to bump that same 20 year RJ pilot out of his seat..... which is what a staple does....

You don't seem to concerned about the 20 year RJ pilot.....No windfalls at the expense of others......

 

[PCL_128]

It isn't fair for a 20 year RJ pilot to bump a 777 pilot out of his seat....... AND it is EQUALLY unfair for a mainline newhire to bump that same 20 year RJ pilot out of his seat..... which is what a staple does....

It's unfair for anyone to be bumped out of a seat, including an RJ Captain, but also unfair for a 20-year RJ Captain to be placed on a combined list ahead of junior mainline pilots, and that's exactly what your buddies wanted done. Even with fences that protect current seat/equipment positions, it would not be right for a regional pilot to have seniority rights over the junior mainline pilots in bidding future vacancies (or AEs in DAL lingo).