Sky West pilots response to mgt

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote from skynation=hello Sunshine! you still work here? how can you stand it, man?! I thought you'd moved on .

Hello yerself sunshine! You haven't got yer 1000 PIC and moved on to a major yet? (Which will probably be an ALPA carrier; where Mr. Nation here will proudly join the ranks of his Union Brothers). Better be careful there amigo, as I'm told from new-hires that in the unlikely event of a merger, JA has publicly stated to them on several occasions it would be D. O. H.

 

[SkyNation]

I'm not against ALPA per se, I just don't bestow all the undue credit and power on them that the zealots here do.

I don't have a problem with ALPA at the majors. I just don't think it is an organization that can do much at the regional level.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Yeah , it'll be interesting to see what United , Delta, Northwest, etc get back pretty soon. Also will be interesting to see ASA's final contract. Mesa's open for contract negotiations again, but the story I've heard is that they're so short on flight crews-everybody's least favorite CEO won't let the negotiating pilots off work to come to the table. If these guys all get some pretty nice contracts I bet everyone would wish they had not bashed ALPA.


You can't whipsaw flyin when ya ain't got the crews to cover it...

 

[WWEfan]

Actually, ALPA does a lot at the regional level. In fact, most regionals could not support an in-house union on their own. ALPA provides vast resources to those regionals who otherwise could not afford their own representation.

 

[marycon]

Of course not. But I guarantee you all the guys who retired wished they had done something a little more far-sighted like, oh,

FUNDING THEIR PENSIONS

ALPA is notoriously short sighted at the legacy carriers. Sure, the top guy gets paid (used to, anyway) $250k to sit on his a$$ and complain, but long term planning and looking out for the bottom of the list never happens. And god help you if you retire . . no one cares about you now.

If ALPA truly cares about pilots, the VERY FIRST THING the pilots at United and DAL will work to restore from their post-BK concessions is the promised pension for the retiree's.

--------->What are the odds that this will happen? (HINT: The answer is "ZERO")

It is the membership that is shortsighted, the rank and file. ALPA and all unions for that matter are reactive, not proactive.

You could go back for the last 10-15 years and read congressional testimony, proposed legislation, newsletter articles etc on how ALPA national has known, recognized and tried to prevent and thwart the now pension debacle.

Until something actually happens to each of us individually, only then are we quick to complain or cry foul but when things are good or the seas are calm the majority of us go along not caring what happens and by the time it does it is too late. I am just as guilty as the next guy.

If you could get the entire membership to pay attention and look ahead much could be done. The corporations are definately forward looking but we workers are not until it is too late.

The same thing can be said about local, state, and national issues and elections. The majority of citizens don't pay too much attention to anything until it directly affects them and even then apathy reigns as one can witness through the number of people that vote.

Again that is true of the union. Look at the recent ALPA drive at Colgan. A small pilot group yet the number of voters was low.

How can you get people to pay attention to the big far ranging issues when you can barely get them to pay attention to what is happening in the here and now.

Finally it is a cliche but an airlines MEC, LEC is only as good as its leadership and its membership. Poor leadership and more importantly an apathetic membership usually leads to no good.

To take a line from HBO's first season of The Wire, most people would rather live in a world of sh1t than let someone see them work a shovel.

 

[Jmoney]

Screw Everyone Else....

I'm not against ALPA per se, I just don't bestow all the undue credit and power on them that the zealots here do.

I don't have a problem with ALPA at the majors. I just don't think it is an organization that can do much at the regional level.

You are a real moron-our industry blows because it is full of jackoffs like yourself!

Do you think ASA could even carry on negotiations for so long if it didn't have ALPA? They send us far more money to support this stuff than we pay in dues!
Oh, yeah, if you ever get hired at a major, you are all about your brothers and sisters in ALPA-just screw everyone who got your sorry butt there!

-May a camel with severe halitosis spit in your eye!
-Blow me!

 

[SkyNation]

Jmoney

thanks for reinforcing what I originally thought was just a stereotype of the ALPA zealot.

way to go, props to you.

 

[rightrudder]

Here's Mesa's problem:

• It's a lousy airline, where you'll get treated very, very poorly. (you do)

• ALPA says "You will give us 3% of your gross, and we will TRY and keep things from getting worse." (they can't)

• As things GET worse, ALPA says "Well, we will fix it in the next contract" (they don't, but they do offer many excuses about how they were "outmaneuvered")

• If you complain, you get a "Well, what have YOU done for ALPA?" (I paid you $10k you pricks)

• If you volunteer for ALPA duties, get ready for ALPA backstabbing politics. And you WILL be unappreciated by the membership no matter what you do.

ERGO:

If you want to get treated with dignity and respect, DON'T work for Mesa. If you go anyway, go in with eyes open acknowledging that that 3% is a "pilot tax" that you'll never recover in any way, shape, or form. Because in 10 years, ALPA has been completely powerless at Mesa. Probably longer.

This is MESA . . . remember, YOUR airline ALPA experience may vary.

It's not 3%, it's slightly less than 2%. You are exaggerating the dues paid by over 33%

 

[Tomct]

Jmoney

thanks for reinforcing what I originally thought was just a stereotype of the ALPA zealot.

way to go, props to you.

Once again...you have NOTHING to say when challenged about WHEN you move on....Oh yeah, ALPA is GREAT! Jmoney was close but I believe the term is more....of a HYPOCRITE!

 

[CFIT]

........

 

[Troutbait]

I will defend Skynation. He is a smart mature guy. It is not because people don't want ALPA that our industry turned into what it is. It started with our democrat friend Ted Kennedy with his deregulation action. Sorry to say, but ALPA was around then too. Most people were happy to be part of ALPA or anytype of union. But things changed. Greed for lots of $$ (which I want too) lead to contracts that killed the airlines. True airlines could have managed their resources in a better way and distributed their $$ to those who deserve it, but they didn't. Now everyone is screwed because management is in a race to the bottom. Delta and United have to wait till Southwest raises their prices before they can do the same. It is the free market that is killing us. Paying 2% of my check in hopes that ALPA can get me more money is silly. Maybe ALPA really wants to help, but you will only get what the company will give you. To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up. That is not all ALPA's fault true. But why bring it when things here are really not that bad. The industry has to change. For everyone out there thinks things will get better. You are foolish and naive. The pilot shortage will do nothing but force companies to lobby to congress for help, just as in Europe. They will change rules before paying more money. We will all be flying with FOs with 50 hours before long. Airlines are already approaching colleges willing to subsidize students tuition with the promise of a job. That pisses me off and should you too. I am in debt up to high heaven to get here. I hate what we have, but that is it. It is what we have. I want the days when we got great money, flew great routes, had FAs that are all nurses, but it ain't coming back. Not without regulation again. But in a free market it ain't going to happen again. It is going down. We are bus drivers of the sky. Period. That is how the company and the masses of people feel about us. I am a realist. It is time you all should wake up too. If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't. I won't pay my money to ALPA again, because it goes to fund stupid ads and posters, and not to actually fixing the problem.

 

[WWEfan]

Hey, I think the ads and posters are pretty good.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I will defend Skynation. He is a smart mature guy. It is not because people don't want ALPA that our industry turned into what it is. It started with our democrat friend Ted Kennedy with his deregulation action. Sorry to say, but ALPA was around then too. Most people were happy to be part of ALPA or anytype of union. But things changed. Greed for lots of $$ (which I want too) lead to contracts that killed the airlines. True airlines could have managed their resources in a better way and distributed their $$ to those who deserve it, but they didn't. Now everyone is screwed because management is in a race to the bottom. Delta and United have to wait till Southwest raises their prices before they can do the same. It is the free market that is killing us. Paying 2% of my check in hopes that ALPA can get me more money is silly. Maybe ALPA really wants to help, but you will only get what the company will give you. To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up. That is not all ALPA's fault true. But why bring it when things here are really not that bad. The industry has to change. For everyone out there thinks things will get better. You are foolish and naive. The pilot shortage will do nothing but force companies to lobby to congress for help, just as in Europe. They will change rules before paying more money. We will all be flying with FOs with 50 hours before long. Airlines are already approaching colleges willing to subsidize students tuition with the promise of a job. That pisses me off and should you too. I am in debt up to high heaven to get here. I hate what we have, but that is it. It is what we have. I want the days when we got great money, flew great routes, had FAs that are all nurses, but it ain't coming back. Not without regulation again. But in a free market it ain't going to happen again. It is going down. We are bus drivers of the sky. Period. That is how the company and the masses of people feel about us. I am a realist. It is time you all should wake up too. If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't. I won't pay my money to ALPA again, because it goes to fund stupid ads and posters, and not to actually fixing the problem.

"I hate what we have" ...but I'm too lazy to try and do anything about it!


"To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up" ...but to "negotiate"(or be told it's this or nothing) a whopping nothing or 1% is much better???

 

[SkyNation]

I am a realist.

If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't.

Well said, I agree.

 

[Troutbait]

True the 1% increase was a joke. A lot of the things we deal with are, but the real problem is bigger than ALPA. You need to see that. No one does, and they all come on here and complain that this company or that company sucks. Well think about this. What about Skybus, Virgin America and yes, even our beloved Southwest. They are here to stay. The industry has changed forever. Those companies are pulling it all down. In order for companies to compete, they must drop their operating expenses, i.e. us, rampers, gate agents, and everyone else. Funny how this is the only industry where a company passes it's operating costs on it's employees. I don't think it is right. But ALPA, APA or anyone else won't change that. Now things here at SKYW aren't that bad. Others places need the help and protection that ALPA can give them. I know this. But SKYW management is not screwing us as bad as everyone somehow thinks. Most pro ALPA guys at SKYW are those who have never been at an ALPA carrier and think it is a savior. I spent several years at a carrier that was ALPA. I am much happier here. I have my unhappy moments here too, but overall, I am happy. Most people I fly with agree.

 

[Troutbait]

Ultimately it is because we are all idiots for choosing this life. We fell victim to what we remembered as children. The FBOs told us what we wanted to hear. Our silly instructors that put us under the hood were just as blinded as us. We chose a dying career thinking it won't happen to us. This forum space should be about educating the up and coming saps who are going to go into crazy debt to get to a job that won't pay the bills. We need to warn our fellow man. It is a great job, but sadly not a great career anymore. Being lazy is not the issue. It is an understanding that we are being broken down like the railroad drivers of old. Once heros but now just monkeys pushing buttons. It is sad, but it is our world. The bigger problem needs to be fixed before the smaller one can even be remedied by ALPA.

 

[SkyNation]

Now things here at SKYW aren't that bad. Others places need the help and protection that ALPA can give them. I know this. But SKYW management is not screwing us as bad as everyone somehow thinks. Most pro ALPA guys at SKYW are those who have never been at an ALPA carrier and think it is a savior. I spent several years at a carrier that was ALPA. I am much happier here. I have my unhappy moments here too, but overall, I am happy. Most people I fly with agree.

well said.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Ultimately it is because we are all idiots for choosing this life. We fell victim to what we remembered as children. The FBOs told us what we wanted to hear. Our silly instructors that put us under the hood were just as blinded as us. We chose a dying career thinking it won't happen to us. This forum space should be about educating the up and coming saps who are going to go into crazy debt to get to a job that won't pay the bills. We need to warn our fellow man. It is a great job, but sadly not a great career anymore. Being lazy is not the issue. It is an understanding that we are being broken down like the railroad drivers of old. Once heros but now just monkeys pushing buttons. It is sad, but it is our world. The bigger problem needs to be fixed before the smaller one can even be remedied by ALPA.

How is it that you are "in debt up to high heaven to get here", if you went the military route flying T-38's and F-16's?

P.S. When I went to college this was still a good career, so I don't think "we're all idiots for choosing this life"...!

 

[HockleyPilot]

PBR,

hello Sunshine! you still work here? how can you stand it, man?! I thought you'd moved on since you hate this place sooooo badly. either that or imploded in on yourself in a fit of company hating, self-loathing, ultra negative rage.

so, here we go again.

Me-3rd year CA, some of the year will be 4th. pay rate is like 63 bucks/hr.

63/hr x 105/hrs per month avg. credit =6489
6489 x 12 months = 77868
plus per diem, which for me will be between 5-6K=$83368

plus all the other crap you mentioned

I think I got you figured out. With your credit 105 a month, you must be a SAPA rep, 3rd year. JB. Not Jim B. The other crappy rep.

Your posts on here sound exactly like the MGT suck up posts on sapa forums.

 

[SkyNation]

nope, not a SAPA rep, never even been to a meeting. Just a line pilot who is realistic about the world and who enjoys his (my) job. it's not that hard to credit 105/hrs. per month, either. I'd prefer to work less next year, and will with better seniority.