Sky West pilots response to mgt

[Gr82Aviate]

I used to buy this line. However, it's flawed thinking.

This is more properly an argument against working for Mesa in the first place. Because even though Mesa would have been worse without ALPA:

WITH ALPA, Mesa was (and is):

• still a terrible place to work; it simply is a non-employee friendly place run by awful managers
• ALPA takes nearly 3% of your paycheck in dues then . . .
• ALPA tells you that the place "could be worse" . . . .
• ALPA says "things will get better in the next contract" . . . as things get progressively worse and worse.

After seeing this go on for 10 years, the only logical assumption is that ALPA does not work at the regional level. ALPA has a long list explaining why it's not their fault, but the fact remains: membership is compulsory, and people should reasonably expect something for all that dues money. Something better than:

"Well, it could be worse"

It's only "an argument against working for MESA"!!! If nobody would work for JO(and Hulas & his Ho-jets), ALPA wouldn't have half the battle trying to bring this industry up from the low levels these bottom feeders have taken us!

 

[nimtz]

After seeing this go on for 10 years, the only logical assumption is that ALPA does not work at the regional level. "

Son it's this simple, over the last 10 years your pilot group has had its proverbially head up its ass. That's your fault, not ALPA national. ALPA was outstanding for me during my time at Coex and I am glad I traded 3% of my paycheck for what it brought to that company.

 

[Soverytired]

Son it's this simple, over the last 10 years your pilot group has had its proverbially head up its ass. That's your fault, not ALPA national. ALPA was outstanding for me during my time at Coex and I am glad I traded 3% of my paycheck for what it brought to that company.

I'm glad your experience was different. Perhaps you didn't have a management group that was so wholly anti-labor to begin with at Coex? Mesa's CEO is notorious for his labor relations.

10 years of ALPA ineffectiveness at Mesa is easily 1/3 rd of a pilots career. For what ever reason, ALPA does not add significant value to the pilot's life at MESA.

I have no dog in the SKYW fight. In a perfect world, management would be good and fair and unions unnecessary. On the other end, you might have a hostile management and an incompetent union (MEC and members), like Mesa. Most companies fall in the middle.

SKYW pilots have to decide where they fall in this spectrum, make their choice and hope for the best.

 

[Soverytired]

At Mesaba if it wasn't for the union during the bankruptcy the pilots would have had no say when the company wanted to impose its terms.

Why is Mesa's contract the way it is? It is my understanding that during the last negotiations that a lot of things were given up in order to stop Freedom and any future type entities at Mesa.

I agree. ALPA did a great job at Mesaba. It's a textbook case for why a pilot group SHOULD have ALPA.

As for the "Freedom Excuse" . . . it's an oft repeated lie, propagated by the now-ousted MEC who settled for our contract because they desperately wanted to be making the CRJ9 pay w/o delay (perhaps, or other reasons I won't bore you with), and scared the pilots into signing it with fantastic tales of how all the flying would be transfered.

• The single carrier petition was never allowed to play out, for one.
• Had the pilots a Mesa gone on strike (their contract was amenable), 100 pilots could not have picked up the slack of 1500 on strike (assuming those 100 would have crossed the line in the first place).

The "Freedom Excuse" is a half-truth, at best.

Perhaps what I'm getting at here is that any group looking over ALPA should read the fine print and realize that:

"Your experience with this union may differ."

 

[Hulk Hogan]

At Mesaba if it wasn't for the union during the bankruptcy the pilots would have had no say when the company wanted to impose its terms.

ALPA gave our MEC over 4 million dollars to fight the company during the bankruptcy. In the end we did give concessions but they were negotiated and approved by the pilot group. Had there been no union we would have no say so and I shudder to think of what circumstances we would be now working under.

By the end of this concessionary contract we will have gotten back most of our lost wages through the snapback provisions. We kept our work rules, min day, sick time, trip guarantee, etc and got a claim in the bankruptcy worth ~20k per pilot. Not bad for a union that 'doesn't' represent the regionals.

Why is Mesa's contract the way it is? It is my understanding that during the last negotiations that a lot of things were given up in order to stop Freedom and any future type entities at Mesa. Different pilot groups different priorities. Now with their contract amendable I am sure they will end up with a much better contract although it will be a long fight.

Things are great at SkyWest right now and I hope they continue to be so. Should the unthinkable happen there like at Mesaba, be it a bankruptcy, real or imagined, or some other event without a union the pilot group will have no say in their future, the company will impose its will upon them.

It just isn't about contracts either. For example, I keep seeing things on the SkyWest threads about the PBS. We have that coming to Mesaba as well. But with the union we have a scheduling committee and a say so in how the PBS will operate, most importantly how much open time will be alotted which makes all the difference in a PBS system for all involved. Plus an eye to make sure the company isn't tweaking the sytem to thier benefit.

I also see many complain about the union dues. It is just about 2% and is tax deductible.

Which every way you SkyWest folks decide, good luck.

~$20K ... try ~14K of which only ~10K is currently under my controll. The bankruptcy claim was advertised to cover the losses associated with the "give backs" over the next four years. Plenty of that money was given to pilots who left, some literally the next day. Furloughed pilots had no say in what transpired between the union and XJ ... including no option to protect their alloted amount of the banckruptcy claim through early sales.
The union did protect work rules but please don't look at F/O pay rates and have any good thoughts. They plain and simple suck. Please don't tell me how well I'm paid to fly a SAAB 340 with out commenting on how poorly paid our CRJ 900 F/O's are paid. Blended rates protect no one but the company. It looks as though in four years we will be returning to our previous book in regards to pay ... but remember those rates were negoitiated to happen in 2008 not 2010.
Mesaba's gowth now is somewhat at the expense of 9E. 15 CRJ 200's are being transferred starting this month from 9E to XJ. This whipsaw has been used before and will continue to be used with a third wheel in the form of Compass (Compost ha ha).
ALPA isn't perfect by a long shot ... however I believe the positives out weigh the negatives. I don't know what is best for SKW but please be cautious of the whipsaw.

 

[SkyNation]

I'm glad your experience was different. Perhaps you didn't have a management group that was so wholly anti-labor to begin with at Coex? Mesa's CEO is notorious for his labor relations.

and supposedly, ALPA 'protects' you from that.

 

[Tarzan]

and supposedly, ALPA 'protects' you from that.

Lord have mercy on you, Boy. How would it be without ALPA there?

 

[Nightrain_080]

The pilot group really needs to decides if they want to continually be bent over by Uncle rico and his no lube approach or be bent over by Alpa. At least Alpa provides some lube and you can actually have a voice without getting b-slapped and insulted along the way. Management is always ready to come to the "stinky table" when there is any kind of Union drive in the future. Instead why can't they practice what they preach about how they supposedly review and update pay and QOL each year. PBS alone should make you a yes voter even if you do know how to use it. It is saving the company millions a year. How many millions do we need in the bank before we can get a simple COLA raise? I can't wait to see if we ever have a losing quarter. Pay would be frozen for another decade.

A "Pro-Skyest" comment once demoted a check-airman over night just because he disagreed with management.

 

[SkyNation]

Lord have mercy on you, Boy. How would it be without ALPA there?

Soverytired has already addressed this notion above.
It is purely a notion.

 

[planesrcool]

i think u all are stupid if u vote yes