Sky West pilots response to mgt

[Soverytired]

And here you say how bad JO is and was, and then in the same breath say that ALPA was totally ineffective.

If you were unhappy with it then why didn't you get involved and try to make it better?

Here's Mesa's problem:

• It's a lousy airline, where you'll get treated very, very poorly. (you do)

• ALPA says "You will give us 3% of your gross, and we will TRY and keep things from getting worse." (they can't)

• As things GET worse, ALPA says "Well, we will fix it in the next contract" (they don't, but they do offer many excuses about how they were "outmaneuvered")

• If you complain, you get a "Well, what have YOU done for ALPA?" (I paid you $10k you pricks)

• If you volunteer for ALPA duties, get ready for ALPA backstabbing politics. And you WILL be unappreciated by the membership no matter what you do.

ERGO:

If you want to get treated with dignity and respect, DON'T work for Mesa. If you go anyway, go in with eyes open acknowledging that that 3% is a "pilot tax" that you'll never recover in any way, shape, or form. Because in 10 years, ALPA has been completely powerless at Mesa. Probably longer.

This is MESA . . . remember, YOUR airline ALPA experience may vary.

 

[Soverytired]

And as far as ALPA not doing anything for the last 10 years or so, I bet that's not what people were saying in 2000 when UAL and DAL signed their huge contracts.

Of course not. But I guarantee you all the guys who retired wished they had done something a little more far-sighted like, oh,

FUNDING THEIR PENSIONS

ALPA is notoriously short sighted at the legacy carriers. Sure, the top guy gets paid (used to, anyway) $250k to sit on his a$$ and complain, but long term planning and looking out for the bottom of the list never happens. And god help you if you retire . . no one cares about you now.

If ALPA truly cares about pilots, the VERY FIRST THING the pilots at United and DAL will work to restore from their post-BK concessions is the promised pension for the retiree's.

--------->What are the odds that this will happen? (HINT: The answer is "ZERO")

 

[WalterSobchak]

At ASA and EGL, ALPA is encouraging the "lifers" to move on.... tells a lot about ALPA....

From the perspective of someone from the outside looking in...this is something that I would be very worried about. It gives the appearance that ALPA is in management's pocket by pushing along those on the higher end of the payscale.

 

[JoeMerchant]

From the perspective of someone from the outside looking in...this is something that I would be very worried about. It gives the appearance that ALPA is in management's pocket by pushing along those on the higher end of the payscale.

BINGO!..... ALPA and management have BOTH worked to make the regional jobs just stepping stone jobs..... There really isn't much difference between the two in this regard.....

 

[Tomct]

great question. any answer is purely hypothetical, however.

in contrast, where they are today is what it is, and the facts are evident. Mesa pilots have one of the worst, if not the worst, contracts out there. This contract was negotiated for them by ALPA via their MEC, and ALPA approved it.

That is because they are loaded with "GUTLESS" pilots....kind of like yourself! Remember skytard, the PILOT GROUP is what makes your local ALPA. If YOU are weak....hopefully you will have stronger ones to make a difference within your local Union leadership.
Hey...here is a question for you, I know that you are from a former ALPA carrier....what did YOU do to help your leadership? Wait...I'll answer for you....NOTHING! You are gutless!!!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote from skynation=hello Sunshine! you still work here? how can you stand it, man?! I thought you'd moved on .

Hello yerself sunshine! You haven't got yer 1000 PIC and moved on to a major yet? (Which will probably be an ALPA carrier; where Mr. Nation here will proudly join the ranks of his Union Brothers). Better be careful there amigo, as I'm told from new-hires that in the unlikely event of a merger, JA has publicly stated to them on several occasions it would be D. O. H.

 

[SkyNation]

I'm not against ALPA per se, I just don't bestow all the undue credit and power on them that the zealots here do.

I don't have a problem with ALPA at the majors. I just don't think it is an organization that can do much at the regional level.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Yeah , it'll be interesting to see what United , Delta, Northwest, etc get back pretty soon. Also will be interesting to see ASA's final contract. Mesa's open for contract negotiations again, but the story I've heard is that they're so short on flight crews-everybody's least favorite CEO won't let the negotiating pilots off work to come to the table. If these guys all get some pretty nice contracts I bet everyone would wish they had not bashed ALPA.


You can't whipsaw flyin when ya ain't got the crews to cover it...

 

[WWEfan]

Actually, ALPA does a lot at the regional level. In fact, most regionals could not support an in-house union on their own. ALPA provides vast resources to those regionals who otherwise could not afford their own representation.

 

[marycon]

Of course not. But I guarantee you all the guys who retired wished they had done something a little more far-sighted like, oh,

FUNDING THEIR PENSIONS

ALPA is notoriously short sighted at the legacy carriers. Sure, the top guy gets paid (used to, anyway) $250k to sit on his a$$ and complain, but long term planning and looking out for the bottom of the list never happens. And god help you if you retire . . no one cares about you now.

If ALPA truly cares about pilots, the VERY FIRST THING the pilots at United and DAL will work to restore from their post-BK concessions is the promised pension for the retiree's.

--------->What are the odds that this will happen? (HINT: The answer is "ZERO")

It is the membership that is shortsighted, the rank and file. ALPA and all unions for that matter are reactive, not proactive.

You could go back for the last 10-15 years and read congressional testimony, proposed legislation, newsletter articles etc on how ALPA national has known, recognized and tried to prevent and thwart the now pension debacle.

Until something actually happens to each of us individually, only then are we quick to complain or cry foul but when things are good or the seas are calm the majority of us go along not caring what happens and by the time it does it is too late. I am just as guilty as the next guy.

If you could get the entire membership to pay attention and look ahead much could be done. The corporations are definately forward looking but we workers are not until it is too late.

The same thing can be said about local, state, and national issues and elections. The majority of citizens don't pay too much attention to anything until it directly affects them and even then apathy reigns as one can witness through the number of people that vote.

Again that is true of the union. Look at the recent ALPA drive at Colgan. A small pilot group yet the number of voters was low.

How can you get people to pay attention to the big far ranging issues when you can barely get them to pay attention to what is happening in the here and now.

Finally it is a cliche but an airlines MEC, LEC is only as good as its leadership and its membership. Poor leadership and more importantly an apathetic membership usually leads to no good.

To take a line from HBO's first season of The Wire, most people would rather live in a world of sh1t than let someone see them work a shovel.

 

[Jmoney]

Screw Everyone Else....

I'm not against ALPA per se, I just don't bestow all the undue credit and power on them that the zealots here do.

I don't have a problem with ALPA at the majors. I just don't think it is an organization that can do much at the regional level.

You are a real moron-our industry blows because it is full of jackoffs like yourself!

Do you think ASA could even carry on negotiations for so long if it didn't have ALPA? They send us far more money to support this stuff than we pay in dues!
Oh, yeah, if you ever get hired at a major, you are all about your brothers and sisters in ALPA-just screw everyone who got your sorry butt there!

-May a camel with severe halitosis spit in your eye!
-Blow me!

 

[SkyNation]

Jmoney

thanks for reinforcing what I originally thought was just a stereotype of the ALPA zealot.

way to go, props to you.

 

[rightrudder]

Here's Mesa's problem:

• It's a lousy airline, where you'll get treated very, very poorly. (you do)

• ALPA says "You will give us 3% of your gross, and we will TRY and keep things from getting worse." (they can't)

• As things GET worse, ALPA says "Well, we will fix it in the next contract" (they don't, but they do offer many excuses about how they were "outmaneuvered")

• If you complain, you get a "Well, what have YOU done for ALPA?" (I paid you $10k you pricks)

• If you volunteer for ALPA duties, get ready for ALPA backstabbing politics. And you WILL be unappreciated by the membership no matter what you do.

ERGO:

If you want to get treated with dignity and respect, DON'T work for Mesa. If you go anyway, go in with eyes open acknowledging that that 3% is a "pilot tax" that you'll never recover in any way, shape, or form. Because in 10 years, ALPA has been completely powerless at Mesa. Probably longer.

This is MESA . . . remember, YOUR airline ALPA experience may vary.

It's not 3%, it's slightly less than 2%. You are exaggerating the dues paid by over 33%

 

[Tomct]

Jmoney

thanks for reinforcing what I originally thought was just a stereotype of the ALPA zealot.

way to go, props to you.

Once again...you have NOTHING to say when challenged about WHEN you move on....Oh yeah, ALPA is GREAT! Jmoney was close but I believe the term is more....of a HYPOCRITE!

 

[CFIT]

........