Sky West pilots response to mgt

[Troutbait]

I will defend Skynation. He is a smart mature guy. It is not because people don't want ALPA that our industry turned into what it is. It started with our democrat friend Ted Kennedy with his deregulation action. Sorry to say, but ALPA was around then too. Most people were happy to be part of ALPA or anytype of union. But things changed. Greed for lots of $$ (which I want too) lead to contracts that killed the airlines. True airlines could have managed their resources in a better way and distributed their $$ to those who deserve it, but they didn't. Now everyone is screwed because management is in a race to the bottom. Delta and United have to wait till Southwest raises their prices before they can do the same. It is the free market that is killing us. Paying 2% of my check in hopes that ALPA can get me more money is silly. Maybe ALPA really wants to help, but you will only get what the company will give you. To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up. That is not all ALPA's fault true. But why bring it when things here are really not that bad. The industry has to change. For everyone out there thinks things will get better. You are foolish and naive. The pilot shortage will do nothing but force companies to lobby to congress for help, just as in Europe. They will change rules before paying more money. We will all be flying with FOs with 50 hours before long. Airlines are already approaching colleges willing to subsidize students tuition with the promise of a job. That pisses me off and should you too. I am in debt up to high heaven to get here. I hate what we have, but that is it. It is what we have. I want the days when we got great money, flew great routes, had FAs that are all nurses, but it ain't coming back. Not without regulation again. But in a free market it ain't going to happen again. It is going down. We are bus drivers of the sky. Period. That is how the company and the masses of people feel about us. I am a realist. It is time you all should wake up too. If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't. I won't pay my money to ALPA again, because it goes to fund stupid ads and posters, and not to actually fixing the problem.

 

[WWEfan]

Hey, I think the ads and posters are pretty good.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I will defend Skynation. He is a smart mature guy. It is not because people don't want ALPA that our industry turned into what it is. It started with our democrat friend Ted Kennedy with his deregulation action. Sorry to say, but ALPA was around then too. Most people were happy to be part of ALPA or anytype of union. But things changed. Greed for lots of $$ (which I want too) lead to contracts that killed the airlines. True airlines could have managed their resources in a better way and distributed their $$ to those who deserve it, but they didn't. Now everyone is screwed because management is in a race to the bottom. Delta and United have to wait till Southwest raises their prices before they can do the same. It is the free market that is killing us. Paying 2% of my check in hopes that ALPA can get me more money is silly. Maybe ALPA really wants to help, but you will only get what the company will give you. To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up. That is not all ALPA's fault true. But why bring it when things here are really not that bad. The industry has to change. For everyone out there thinks things will get better. You are foolish and naive. The pilot shortage will do nothing but force companies to lobby to congress for help, just as in Europe. They will change rules before paying more money. We will all be flying with FOs with 50 hours before long. Airlines are already approaching colleges willing to subsidize students tuition with the promise of a job. That pisses me off and should you too. I am in debt up to high heaven to get here. I hate what we have, but that is it. It is what we have. I want the days when we got great money, flew great routes, had FAs that are all nurses, but it ain't coming back. Not without regulation again. But in a free market it ain't going to happen again. It is going down. We are bus drivers of the sky. Period. That is how the company and the masses of people feel about us. I am a realist. It is time you all should wake up too. If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't. I won't pay my money to ALPA again, because it goes to fund stupid ads and posters, and not to actually fixing the problem.

"I hate what we have" ...but I'm too lazy to try and do anything about it!


"To negotiate for 6 years and still be fighting for the bare needs is messed up" ...but to "negotiate"(or be told it's this or nothing) a whopping nothing or 1% is much better???

 

[SkyNation]

I am a realist.

If a union could help, I would pay 10%. But it won't.

Well said, I agree.

 

[Troutbait]

True the 1% increase was a joke. A lot of the things we deal with are, but the real problem is bigger than ALPA. You need to see that. No one does, and they all come on here and complain that this company or that company sucks. Well think about this. What about Skybus, Virgin America and yes, even our beloved Southwest. They are here to stay. The industry has changed forever. Those companies are pulling it all down. In order for companies to compete, they must drop their operating expenses, i.e. us, rampers, gate agents, and everyone else. Funny how this is the only industry where a company passes it's operating costs on it's employees. I don't think it is right. But ALPA, APA or anyone else won't change that. Now things here at SKYW aren't that bad. Others places need the help and protection that ALPA can give them. I know this. But SKYW management is not screwing us as bad as everyone somehow thinks. Most pro ALPA guys at SKYW are those who have never been at an ALPA carrier and think it is a savior. I spent several years at a carrier that was ALPA. I am much happier here. I have my unhappy moments here too, but overall, I am happy. Most people I fly with agree.

 

[Troutbait]

Ultimately it is because we are all idiots for choosing this life. We fell victim to what we remembered as children. The FBOs told us what we wanted to hear. Our silly instructors that put us under the hood were just as blinded as us. We chose a dying career thinking it won't happen to us. This forum space should be about educating the up and coming saps who are going to go into crazy debt to get to a job that won't pay the bills. We need to warn our fellow man. It is a great job, but sadly not a great career anymore. Being lazy is not the issue. It is an understanding that we are being broken down like the railroad drivers of old. Once heros but now just monkeys pushing buttons. It is sad, but it is our world. The bigger problem needs to be fixed before the smaller one can even be remedied by ALPA.

 

[SkyNation]

Now things here at SKYW aren't that bad. Others places need the help and protection that ALPA can give them. I know this. But SKYW management is not screwing us as bad as everyone somehow thinks. Most pro ALPA guys at SKYW are those who have never been at an ALPA carrier and think it is a savior. I spent several years at a carrier that was ALPA. I am much happier here. I have my unhappy moments here too, but overall, I am happy. Most people I fly with agree.

well said.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Ultimately it is because we are all idiots for choosing this life. We fell victim to what we remembered as children. The FBOs told us what we wanted to hear. Our silly instructors that put us under the hood were just as blinded as us. We chose a dying career thinking it won't happen to us. This forum space should be about educating the up and coming saps who are going to go into crazy debt to get to a job that won't pay the bills. We need to warn our fellow man. It is a great job, but sadly not a great career anymore. Being lazy is not the issue. It is an understanding that we are being broken down like the railroad drivers of old. Once heros but now just monkeys pushing buttons. It is sad, but it is our world. The bigger problem needs to be fixed before the smaller one can even be remedied by ALPA.

How is it that you are "in debt up to high heaven to get here", if you went the military route flying T-38's and F-16's?

P.S. When I went to college this was still a good career, so I don't think "we're all idiots for choosing this life"...!

 

[HockleyPilot]

PBR,

hello Sunshine! you still work here? how can you stand it, man?! I thought you'd moved on since you hate this place sooooo badly. either that or imploded in on yourself in a fit of company hating, self-loathing, ultra negative rage.

so, here we go again.

Me-3rd year CA, some of the year will be 4th. pay rate is like 63 bucks/hr.

63/hr x 105/hrs per month avg. credit =6489
6489 x 12 months = 77868
plus per diem, which for me will be between 5-6K=$83368

plus all the other crap you mentioned

I think I got you figured out. With your credit 105 a month, you must be a SAPA rep, 3rd year. JB. Not Jim B. The other crappy rep.

Your posts on here sound exactly like the MGT suck up posts on sapa forums.

 

[SkyNation]

nope, not a SAPA rep, never even been to a meeting. Just a line pilot who is realistic about the world and who enjoys his (my) job. it's not that hard to credit 105/hrs. per month, either. I'd prefer to work less next year, and will with better seniority.

 

[Bluto]

Ultimately it is because we are all idiots for choosing this life. We fell victim to what we remembered as children. The FBOs told us what we wanted to hear. Our silly instructors that put us under the hood were just as blinded as us. We chose a dying career thinking it won't happen to us. This forum space should be about educating the up and coming saps who are going to go into crazy debt to get to a job that won't pay the bills. We need to warn our fellow man. It is an understanding that we are being broken down like the railroad drivers of old. Once heros but now just monkeys pushing buttons. It is sad, but it is our world. The bigger problem needs to be fixed before the smaller one can even be remedied by ALPA.

Wow. Give this man a seat at the negotiating table. (Well, under SAPA I guess it'd be more like the "discussion" table.) I'm so glad to hear that you've discovered why the airlines are a miserable place to work. Well-done.

Defeatist attitudes like yours, attitudes of entitlement and a lack of respect for self and industry combined with difficult times and opportunistic management are the causes of our current predicament. If you are too short-sighted to understand that you really should leave this industry and go find something that pays better.

By the way, many of us came into this industry with our eyes wide open, knowing full-well that we would have to fight tooth and nail for every improvement and to keep from sliding backwards. Many of us also planned carefully financially and worked hard so as to avoid being in debt, so please, please, don't paint all pilots with the same broad, pathetic brush you deserve yourself. If you were too naive to know what you were getting into, you should be embarassed, but don't assume the rest of us share your ignorance.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Hey Skynation, you anti-union guys throw out the race to the bottom ,its the industry and other cliches as much as any union guy I've read. However ASA is showing record profits and these guys haven't seen a better cut of the action in 5 yrs! United is showing signs of health (just look at the stock options the fat cats gave theirselves) and we're supposed to assuage ourselves with "that's just the way it is"? An ad in many of the inflight airline magazines sums it up man.
You don't get what you deserve-YOU GET WHAT YOU NEGOTIATE! Quit thinking of regionals as a place to get pooped on while YOU build YOUR time. Trust me dude we've all paid our dues one way or another. Otherwise just go to the majors and be arrogant like a select few of those who have a sense of self entitlement that they're at the top of the heap and the peons will now support my "hard earned" lifestyle. Mgmt thinks like that dude- not the average employee. The regional airlines are currently fiscally healthy for the most part and CAN afford to pay us better. If and When that ever changes I'll be one of the first to ask my CEO what I can do to help.

 

[SkyNation]

By the way, many of us came into this industry with our eyes wide open, knowing full-well that we would have to fight tooth and nail for every improvement and to keep from sliding backwards.

then why did you come to SkyWest? if you're an ardent ALPA supporter, and knew we didn't have it?

let me guess. things used to be great here, but it's deteriorated. you used to trust management to do right by us, but now you don't. you want to bring ALPA on board, because you believe they will force managements hand into giving us what you think we deserve.

 

[airtime42]

then why did you come to SkyWest? if you're an ardent ALPA supporter, and knew we didn't have it?

let me guess. things used to be great here, but it's deteriorated. you used to trust management to do right by us, but now you don't. you want to bring ALPA on board, because you believe they will force managements hand into giving us what you think we deserve.

you queers just like being bent over. The rest of the industry just needs get that through their heads.

That all their hard work is for nothing because a pilot group like skywest likes to be bent over. you are a discrace..

 

[SkyNation]

However ASA is showing record profits and these guys haven't seen a better cut of the action in 5 yrs!

EXACTLY!! and what 'power' does your precious ALPA have to do anything about it? 5 years is a long time to pay dues with no results. if you end up getting the same or less than what we have in the end, doesn't it seem silly to have paid all those dues and wasted all that time?

Quit thinking of regionals as a place to get pooped on while YOU build YOUR time.

I don't plan on ever leaving here, so I don't know where you get that idea.

The regional airlines are currently fiscally healthy for the most part and CAN afford to pay us better. If and When that ever changes I'll be one of the first to ask my CEO what I can do to help.

'reward me first, then ask me what I can do to help.' classic.