Sky West pilots response to mgt

[Troutbait]

And if you think we like it bent over, then boy, I don't want to know what kinky crap you like. ASA was struggling to get a new contract before being acquired by SKYW. Many ALPA guys are struggling with this so called savior on their backs. If you want to use someone like Express Jet, well just wait and see what is going to happen. I hope it doesn't but just wait. The first thing management will turn to when dealing with dwindling profits and lowering stock fundamentals is not to raise prices but dock wages. You can't use FEDEX because they don't deal with moving the masses. We maybe getting it in the rear but at least we are not being ripped a new one.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Welll,
Pissing contest and babble are the stock and trade. Educated conversation? On the internet, you really aren't too bright, keep swilling that kool-aid brotha.
This(SKYW), ain't the military its bidness, and bidness is about making money. Unfortunately mgmt can't make more money by charging UAL and DAL more money, they have a stupid contract that prevents that. Lessee where else can the make more money? Oh by taking their single largest cost item and cutting that, and what might that be? Labor. You are labor and you don't have a contract, if SKYW was in danger of losing money I would be first in line to do whatever was necessary to prevent the company from going under, but alas that is not the case. We don't have a contract so they just take it out of our pockets, via PBS, payroll and constant workrule erosions, in the "interests of efficiency" Son you gotta think for yourself, not like uncle ricos parrot. This isn't the military, and just because our "leadership" says it's doesn't mean it's so. Until you stand up with your pilot brothers and say no more, travelocity and expedia will continue to set your pay rates. If you won't fly the plane, they can not get to wally world or wherever they spent hundreds of hours trying to get the cheapest ticket on the internet.
Wake up
PBR
P.S. I guess when you fly your F-16 you do it all by yourself, real men think wing men and squadrons are gay.

 

[Troutbait]

So we vote in ALPA, get this brotherhood you so search for. Great...Meanwhile it takes us 6 years to get a contract and a, not the, much needed pay raise. Great...So the SKYW pilot group is one in ALPA. Along comes SKYW stock holders, and I don't mean you, and says, ' you know your costs are a bit high, your EPS is not what it should be.' Along Delta and United, 'You know SKYW, even though you have a contract to pay your work group such and such, you are getting to expensive for us. Lower your costs or we go to someone else.' Any you know they will, they did to Express Jet. So then SKYW does what has been done before and develops a new company. One like our brothers GoJet. Because our passion for flying is played against us, there will always be the poor sap who will sign up for less. Meanwhile SKYW pilots have a contract, but no more flying. Crap, a contract is pretty and bound in colorful paper, but worth nothing more than the cheap paper it is printed on. A contract doesn't guarantee nothing. We see it all the time. I want a contract too. I want more money too. I would like SKYW pilots to all be a one big family too. But at what cost. It is more than 2%. And your little jab at the military is a bit low. It has nothing to do with anything. Besides, the military is doing the same thing. Replacing pilots with something cheaper. UAVs. Move is not so much as to protect pilots as it is to reduce costs of pilots. It sucks. There will always be someone there who will do it for cheaper. Do you think we get the flying we do because we think we can fly an ILS better? It is because of our costs. It is that simple. Sorry, I don't like it either.

 

[BoilerUP]

And your little jab at the military is a bit low. It has nothing to do with anything. Besides, the military is doing the same thing. Replacing pilots with something cheaper. UAVs. Move is not so much as to protect pilots as it is to reduce costs of pilots. It sucks.

You still gotta have somebody to fly the damn thing though, right?

 

[bizzum]

So we vote in ALPA, get this brotherhood you so search for. Great...Meanwhile it takes us 6 years to get a contract and a, not the, much needed pay raise. Great...So the SKYW pilot group is one in ALPA. Along comes SKYW stock holders, and I don't mean you, and says, ' you know your costs are a bit high, your EPS is not what it should be.' Along Delta and United, 'You know SKYW, even though you have a contract to pay your work group such and such, you are getting to expensive for us. Lower your costs or we go to someone else.' Any you know they will, they did to Express Jet. So then SKYW does what has been done before and develops a new company. One like our brothers GoJet. Because our passion for flying is played against us, there will always be the poor sap who will sign up for less. Meanwhile SKYW pilots have a contract, but no more flying. Crap, a contract is pretty and bound in colorful paper, but worth nothing more than the cheap paper it is printed on. A contract doesn't guarantee nothing. We see it all the time. I want a contract too. I want more money too. I would like SKYW pilots to all be a one big family too. But at what cost. It is more than 2%. And your little jab at the military is a bit low. It has nothing to do with anything. Besides, the military is doing the same thing. Replacing pilots with something cheaper. UAVs. Move is not so much as to protect pilots as it is to reduce costs of pilots. It sucks. There will always be someone there who will do it for cheaper. Do you think we get the flying we do because we think we can fly an ILS better? It is because of our costs. It is that simple. Sorry, I don't like it either.

So what happens when the same thing happens without a union contract? You have ZERO protection from the company. All they will have to do is issue a FOM revision, and your pay is slashed in half, you lose all your work rules, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. If you have a CBA, the company cannot just swoop in and take things. Why do you think your management is so anti-union? They do not want to have things such as pay and work rules out of their control, they want to be able to change things when THEY want to. Your company made what like 120 MILLION in profit last year, they are not hurting, and to be happy with a 6% override to fly the 7/900 while the bro guys not NOTHING is just plain sad. Management sees that as a divided pilot group, and they will use that against you.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

So we vote in ALPA, get this brotherhood you so search for. Great...Meanwhile it takes us 6 years to get a contract and a, not the, much needed pay raise. Great...So the SKYW pilot group is one in ALPA. Along comes SKYW stock holders, and I don't mean you, and says, ' you know your costs are a bit high, your EPS is not what it should be.' Along Delta and United, 'You know SKYW, even though you have a contract to pay your work group such and such, you are getting to expensive for us. Lower your costs or we go to someone else.' Any you know they will, they did to Express Jet. So then SKYW does what has been done before and develops a new company. One like our brothers GoJet. Because our passion for flying is played against us, there will always be the poor sap who will sign up for less. Meanwhile SKYW pilots have a contract, but no more flying. Crap, a contract is pretty and bound in colorful paper, but worth nothing more than the cheap paper it is printed on. A contract doesn't guarantee nothing. We see it all the time. I want a contract too. I want more money too. I would like SKYW pilots to all be a one big family too. But at what cost. It is more than 2%. And your little jab at the military is a bit low. It has nothing to do with anything. Besides, the military is doing the same thing. Replacing pilots with something cheaper. UAVs. Move is not so much as to protect pilots as it is to reduce costs of pilots. It sucks. There will always be someone there who will do it for cheaper. Do you think we get the flying we do because we think we can fly an ILS better? It is because of our costs. It is that simple. Sorry, I don't like it either.

You bring up Express Jet, but failed to fill in the true details! Express Jet pilots actually make more than Skyw pilots(and have better work rules and benefits), and yet they still managed to pick up a bunch of DCI flying...wow, I guess treating your employees well doesn't preclude getting DCI flying afterall?!!!

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote from me: The regional airlines are currently fiscally healthy for the most part and CAN afford to pay us better. If and When that ever changes I'll be one of the first to ask my CEO what I can do to help.

Retort from skynation-'reward me first, then ask me what I can do to help.' classic.


Wait nation, I get it - "Gee Mr. Mgmt let me help you get that 120 million this year (by working minimum wage)so you can reward yourself and your cronies. Go ahead and get that new 40ft Bertram Sir, You don't want to look low rent at the Bisbee tournament next month Sir.

Mgt. giving you a raise is NOT a cost passed on to Delta, UAL etc. Yeah idiot- when they're pullin down that kind of cash, I WANT A TASTE! When times get tough I bet I fly harder than you to help the company get back on track. Reward me first then ask what I can do to help? I think that's a question better asked by the nice folks in SGU.

Sorry I took so long getting back to this. I enjoy my life on my days off/

 

[Gandalf]

Definitions:
Represent. Verb. "To act or speak on behalf of somebody or something.
To speak and act for somebody else in an official way."

Representation. Noun. "The fact or right of being represented by somebody, especially of having a member in a legislature with the power to vote or speak for an electorate."

Negotiation. Noun. "The reaching of agreement through discussion and compromise."

So let me get this straight...SAPA negotiated for this last contract with management....hmmm....No increases for the Bro - not that they work the hardest - 9 legs a day, 20 min legs with 18 min turns, a 1% increase on the 50 for 4 YEARS! - .25% a year. A 1% increase on the 70/90 with a block hour override that was WAY overdue - anyone remember the conditions of bringing the 70 on property - Empty Promises!

WAY TO GO SAPA!!! To negotiate don't you need to start high and COMPROMISE to a middle point? To get a 1% raise for 4 years - what was the high mark that SAPA used to negotiate? 1.1%?

Inflation rises every year!

Inflation. Noun. "An increase in the supply of currency or credit relative to the availability of goods and services, resulting in higher prices."

A relative of mine works in health care industry - standard YEARLY raise 3% (Hey - to keep up with inflation) and above and beyond that for performance.

Check out the salary inflation calculator on inflationdata.com!

Binding. Adjective. "Creating a legal or moral obligation to do something, with no possibility of withdrawal or avoidance."

Hey, thats something we DON"T have. A binding contract, document, something that states that Party A is responsible for this and B for that. Here are the rules that BOTH sides must abide by. Nope - JA and company can make changes to whatever they like and we are along for the ride!

Examples: "...The 18 Month TA dated July 1, 2003 through December 31,2004 - SAPA President CA

The State of the Industry

In early January, the SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association Representative Board (SAPA) initiated formal pay rate discussions with SkyWest Airlines Management (Management). The structure, format and terms of our Tentative Agreement (TA) have changed dramatically since then....

...The Tentative Agreement

Highlights: "In English, please ..."

-18 month duration
- Current pay scales for current aircraft
- All longevity increases remain intact
- 50-99 seat rates (current 50 seat rates)
- 100-159 seat jet rates (-20-22% below Southwest Airlines 2001/2002 scale)


Rates and Duration: How Much, How Long?

SAPA and Management have agreed to the following pay scale. If approved by majority vote of the SAPA General Membership, this scale will be effective July 1, 2003 through December 31,2004."

So, what happened on Jan 1, 2005....
"SAPA President pay letter to BH ~2004

Dear B,
I am writing to you in my capacity as President of The SkyWest Airlines Pilot's Association (SAPA) regarding the pay scale that SAPA proposes to become effective January 1, 2005.
SAPA shares the desire of the company as expressed in our joint letter of May 18, 2000, to work together to develop an hourly pay scale that keeps SkyWest pilots at the top of the industry. In keeping with the thoughts expressed in the letter, our current representatives believe the pay scale should be adjusted annually to keep it at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...The CRJ 50 and 70-seat pay scales submitted herewith are reflective of the top industry scales that will become effective in 2005. Adoption of these pay scales will meet the expressed desire of the company and SAPA. Further, the submitted pay scales reflect year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep them at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...EMB-120 aircraft, SAPA proposes a percentage increase of 4.7% to account for the increase in the cost of living since the current pay scales were adopted in June, 2002. This scale also reflects year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep it at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...SAPA proposes the elimination of the rates contained in the current SP Paragraph, 100-159 Seat Jet Hourly Pay Rates. SAPA proposes to negotiate separately the rate for any aircraft larger than those currently operated by SkyWest Airlines...."

None of the SAPA proposed changes happened in 2005. Finally in Nov. 2006....wait for it, wait for it, wait for it.....Yessssss! 1%.

SAPA does not work...Maybe back in the day it worked with a small, family style company, but with domicles coast to coast, 2000+ pilots and growing exponentially - it doesn't work!

The situation with SAPA is like voting in a election, electing representatives to Congress, those reprensatives voting how their constituents wish them to on issues, and then the whole system is hijacked by the speaker of the house who says too bad you voted for the bill, not only is it not going to pass but here's what's going to happen!

So, I ask - why should I vote in a system in which I have no REAL representation.

So..I vote for a SAPA rep.....and candidate X (who REALLY DOES care about me and my needs, who REALLY DOES want to get things done, who REALLY DOES want to see GOOD THINGS for Skywest - because they DO!) goes to the SAPA meetings and voices my concerns, needs, wants and wishes to "the boys", battles with them day after day, week after week, month after month and in the end.....

.........."they" do what "they" want to do, because - "they" can.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Qoute from troutbait-Along (comes?)Delta and United, 'You know SKYW, even though you have a contract to pay your work group such and such, you are getting to expensive for us. Lower your costs or we go to someone else.'

Any raise, bonus, perk we get from SKW is NOT a cost passed on to Delta or UAL. We are fee for departure- it is a set price negotiated with the parties concerned. we don't operate free market dude. SKW on the other hand has to balance their bids for flying against labor cost and for the time being "they have a preety darn favorable balance agin us."

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Definitions:
Represent. Verb. "To act or speak on behalf of somebody or something.
To speak and act for somebody else in an official way."

Representation. Noun. "The fact or right of being represented by somebody, especially of having a member in a legislature with the power to vote or speak for an electorate."

Negotiation. Noun. "The reaching of agreement through discussion and compromise."

So let me get this straight...SAPA negotiated for this last contract with management....hmmm....No increases for the Bro - not that they work the hardest - 9 legs a day, 20 min legs with 18 min turns, a 1% increase on the 50 for 4 YEARS! - .25% a year. A 1% increase on the 70/90 with a block hour override that was WAY overdue - anyone remember the conditions of bringing the 70 on property - Empty Promises!

WAY TO GO SAPA!!! To negotiate don't you need to start high and COMPROMISE to a middle point? To get a 1% raise for 4 years - what was the high mark that SAPA used to negotiate? 1.1%?

Inflation rises every year!

Inflation. Noun. "An increase in the supply of currency or credit relative to the availability of goods and services, resulting in higher prices."

A relative of mine works in health care industry - standard YEARLY raise 3% (Hey - to keep up with inflation) and above and beyond that for performance.

Check out the salary inflation calculator on inflationdata.com!

Binding. Adjective. "Creating a legal or moral obligation to do something, with no possibility of withdrawal or avoidance."

Hey, thats something we DON"T have. A binding contract, document, something that states that Party A is responsible for this and B for that. Here are the rules that BOTH sides must abide by. Nope - JA and company can make changes to whatever they like and we are along for the ride!

Examples: "...The 18 Month TA dated July 1, 2003 through December 31,2004 - SAPA President CA

The State of the Industry

In early January, the SkyWest Airlines Pilot Association Representative Board (SAPA) initiated formal pay rate discussions with SkyWest Airlines Management (Management). The structure, format and terms of our Tentative Agreement (TA) have changed dramatically since then....

...The Tentative Agreement

Highlights: "In English, please ..."

-18 month duration
- Current pay scales for current aircraft
- All longevity increases remain intact
- 50-99 seat rates (current 50 seat rates)
- 100-159 seat jet rates (-20-22% below Southwest Airlines 2001/2002 scale)


Rates and Duration: How Much, How Long?

SAPA and Management have agreed to the following pay scale. If approved by majority vote of the SAPA General Membership, this scale will be effective July 1, 2003 through December 31,2004."

So, what happened on Jan 1, 2005....
"SAPA President pay letter to BH ~2004

Dear B,
I am writing to you in my capacity as President of The SkyWest Airlines Pilot's Association (SAPA) regarding the pay scale that SAPA proposes to become effective January 1, 2005.
SAPA shares the desire of the company as expressed in our joint letter of May 18, 2000, to work together to develop an hourly pay scale that keeps SkyWest pilots at the top of the industry. In keeping with the thoughts expressed in the letter, our current representatives believe the pay scale should be adjusted annually to keep it at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...The CRJ 50 and 70-seat pay scales submitted herewith are reflective of the top industry scales that will become effective in 2005. Adoption of these pay scales will meet the expressed desire of the company and SAPA. Further, the submitted pay scales reflect year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep them at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...EMB-120 aircraft, SAPA proposes a percentage increase of 4.7% to account for the increase in the cost of living since the current pay scales were adopted in June, 2002. This scale also reflects year over year percentage increases of 2.5%, 3.0% and 3.5% in order to keep it at the top of the industry during the term of the agreement...

...SAPA proposes the elimination of the rates contained in the current SP Paragraph, 100-159 Seat Jet Hourly Pay Rates. SAPA proposes to negotiate separately the rate for any aircraft larger than those currently operated by SkyWest Airlines...."

None of the SAPA proposed changes happened in 2005. Finally in Nov. 2006....wait for it, wait for it, wait for it.....Yessssss! 1%.

SAPA does not work...Maybe back in the day it worked with a small, family style company, but with domicles coast to coast, 2000+ pilots and growing exponentially - it doesn't work!

The situation with SAPA is like voting in a election, electing representatives to Congress, those reprensatives voting how their constituents wish them to on issues, and then the whole system is hijacked by the speaker of the house who says too bad you voted for the bill, not only is it not going to pass but here's what's going to happen!

So, I ask - why should I vote in a system in which I have no REAL representation.

So..I vote for a SAPA rep.....and candidate X (who REALLY DOES care about me and my needs, who REALLY DOES want to get things done, who REALLY DOES want to see GOOD THINGS for Skywest - because they DO!) goes to the SAPA meetings and voices my concerns, needs, wants and wishes to "the boys", battles with them day after day, week after week, month after month and in the end.....

.........."they" do what "they" want to do, because - "they" can.

Well spoken,...and let's not foget that 9/11 was used as an excuse to stop annual COLA that we always had prior to then, even though the company has actually been even more profitable post 9/11 than pre(for some of us this, since our last COLA was our hire date prior to 9/11 it means 7 years of going backward with no adjustment)!!!