AirTran BOD pulls TA

[Pilot Knob]

I wanted this thing to go down hard. And now I'm not going to get the satisfaction to vote no. They knew this thing was a POS when they brought it to us, and had the b$#lls to try and tell us it was a good deal. How do they keep a straight face? All of that time I spent on the phone with Wilson polling(and all of the other participants) appears to have been a complete waste of time! "we need to sign off on this TA so we can go forward with the merger" AP. NO WE DON'T! We need to get a contract that is fair to the pilot group and has very tight scope and merger protection. 4.5 hour average day, ac movement, core value credit(nice buzz word) mdo reserve lines, proposed scope language,etc. are all deal breakers for me.

 

[Citrusflyer]

No, the rant is cool... deliberating ideas is part of what this message board was originally intended for.

I thought like you did until Allen and the BOD pulled this without stating their new goals in going back to mediation. Sorry, but I just know better than to trust someone who has brought me something so woefully inadequate once... part of that "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..." kind of thinking.

I even told him that and have it direct from the source that other senior CA's told him the same thing. "If you're going to let it go to vote, pull the "recommend" and let it die HARD. If you're going to pull it, pull it NOW, tell the membership WHY you're pulling it and EXACTLY what you're going to change and that you will accept nothing less."

Good points. But let me ask you this. By the same logic should we not have a candidate(s) in mind, who will "tell the membership WHY their pulling it (the TA) and EXACTLY what (the will do) to change and (if they) will accept nothing less" PRIOR to recalling AP and the BoD?

If we don't have a savior on deck, then what exactly will we get in return for yanking these guys out?

 

[Lear70]

Good points. But let me ask you this. By the same logic should we not have a candidate(s) in mind, who will "tell the membership WHY their pulling it (the TA) and EXACTLY what (the will do) to change and (if they) will accept nothing less" PRIOR to recalling AP and the BoD?

If we don't have a savior on deck, then what exactly will we get in return for yanking these guys out?

Well, first, we're not removing the entire BoD. We're removing AP and the Negotiating Committee ONLY. It's not good to have a headless NPA and there will be enough experience left to run the daily operations while the new head and the NC spool up.

Secondly, you're exactly right. I was mentioning that the other day when people were starting to clamor more loudly for recall, saying "Who is going to take his place?"

Several people have said BD, several people have said one of the other BoD members (although I fail to see how that's a good plan when they still unanimously support this lovely document for download), I honestly don't know what the answer is, and I've been asking that very question on the underground site and so far it's crickets...

I do, however, know that there is ZERO trust, and therefore zero support for AP and the NC, and we can't go on fighting with no trust or support from the pilot group. The only way to fix that is to replace them with someone the pilots can trust again.

 

[Ace McCoy]

When I heard that the BOD pulled the TA I couldn't help but feel sorry for RM. He was so excited! about this TA. He must be very sad today.

Filling out my petition now. Should I send it in right away for maximum effect or go to work and get more signatures? Also, make 2 copies and send one to Craig and fax one to npa and mail or just fax only?

Thanks.

 

[The Victors]

It's good to finally see a pilot group stand up and stay FU..K OFF to a POS contract offer from mgmt. To bad those frontier losers didn't do the same and continue to try and lower the bar. Good for you airtran guys/gals!!! Keep up the fight

 

[EMBATP]

recall

well guys i too listened to the conference call and i did not hear one thing that impressed me or made me feel that we are going to get anything much better than whats on the table now.....AP did not even apologize for bringing this turd out or even have any suggestion on how to make it better...he listened to the callers but did not "hear" them...people are basically telling him what this pilot group will not stand for and he does not seem to get it....he is not only out of touch with the pilot group but the industry as well...

he does not realize that yes we want a raise etc. but are not willing to give up things like a 13 hour day 4.5 average day, scope etc. to get it....what was he thinking?

as for the recall...i dont know who to put in there...i am sure we have a lot of talent that will step forward... i have no experience but would be wiling to help...but we need to recall the whole BOD and NC on this one...cant trust any of those guys anymore...they all supported this, so how can they prove they will bring anything better?

oh and dont let SH negotiate anything ever again....

 

[mnboyev]

I say let em meet in July... see what happens... if they continue to FU.. well.. then I guess they'll get wacked and start over.... sad stuff men.. I wont ask for a recall yet.. make em fix it. Like Lear said.... crickets when they question is raised 'who will step up'?

Havent seen any bag tags at work... I guess everyone is afraid of getting removed from their trip.. ? Did everyone email the SPC chair....

Just stirring the pot... Start writing your 'vote for me' quips... make sure to get a good picture of yourself standing firm focused and whatever ... LOL...
Be sure to throw them around the crew lounge and plaster them on our sh1t house walls..... Who will be the next poster child of the NPA? Please..

 

[Lowrider717]

We are UNITED in 1 thing, this TA Sucks. Lets keep it simple. Give democracy a chance and not give the Company what it wants, more division.

Stay focused.

I'm not happy about not getting to Vote on this Crappy TA, but at least WE were heard. We were heard, not fully but we were heard. That's about all I can find positive in this deal.

 

[Lear70]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

We have no way to make our voices heard if our own elected reps won't listen. They are entrenched in their belief that this T.A. is worth ratifying. Therefore, sending them back again isn't going to do us any good unless they agree to do the will of the group.

 

[Citrusflyer]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

We have no way to make our voices heard if our own elected reps won't listen. They are entrenched in their belief that this T.A. is worth ratifying. Therefore, sending them back again isn't going to do us any good unless they agree to do the will of the group.

As far as insanity goes, we have to do this once first. For better, or worse, we didn't get to vote on this. We did, however, get to see the equivelant of a "preview" and the ctirics were not kind. Now, it's up to the makers to rectify the situation. They have taken the unusual step of pulling the TA. Let's see where this goes. If they see fit to tie it up with a band-aid then so be it....vote it down and the BoD out!

If not, and they pull it together, and get a good deal out of it then we win. Unless you have other motives let these guys do the job that the plurality elected them to do.

Next time maybe, just maybe, the pilot group will wake up and have full participation in an election.

 

[Lowrider717]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

We have no way to make our voices heard if our own elected reps won't listen. They are entrenched in their belief that this T.A. is worth ratifying. Therefore, sending them back again isn't going to do us any good unless they agree to do the will of the group.

I agree, but the BoD committed (for whatever reason) to endorsing this pig, they have an obligation to give it its best shot(I'm mostly playing devils advocate here) and not to do so would be in "bad faith". Your turn.

 

[Lowrider717]

Next time maybe, just maybe, the pilot group will wake up and have full participation in an election.

I disagree with the tack the BoD has taken in "bashing" the Pilot Group and laying the blame on US for this sucky TA, because we haven't worn our Pins or displayed our bag tags enough. That is poor form friend, and it needs to stop. Continuing will only drive more to the petition.

 

[BagelBomber]

All the pilots on property who bought into the company propaganda on how bad our previous NC Chairman was, this is what you get for being retarded. If Mike B. was at the table, this PoS would not have seen the light of day. This TA is what you get in return for the company deciding who negotiates against them. They whined and cried how big bad Mike was the reason nothing was happening and some of our pilots believed it. It was masterfully executed by the company and they just needed Allen to lay down on it. If we were able to talk MB into coming back to the table and pair him with Lear70 and Brad D. - that would be our Dream Team and just what we need right now. At the very least, we would get a TA we could actually vote on. Just my opinion.

 

[instructordude]

All the pilots on property who bought into the company propaganda on how bad our previous NC Chairman was, this is what you get for being retarded. If Mike B. was at the table, this PoS would not have seen the light of day. This TA is what you get in return for the company deciding who negotiates against them. They whined and cried how big bad Mike was the reason nothing was happening and some of our pilots believed it. It was masterfully executed by the company and they just needed Allen to lay down on it. If we were able to talk MB into coming back to the table and pair him with Lear70 and Brad D. - that would be our Dream Team and just what we need right now. At the very least, we would get a TA we could actually vote on. Just my opinion.

Don't forget Ty. I'm pretty sure managment would cave in if they knew he was part of the negotiating team. Sh!t what am I saying team for, Ty could do it on his own and management would be crappin their diapers seeing him across the table.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty could do it on his own and management would be crappin their diapers seeing him across the table.

Hmmm . . . . . it would be entertaining, of that you could be certain. SK would be reduced to pounding on the table with his shoe, like Kruschev.



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