AirTran BOD pulls TA

[ultrarunner]

Lear70, where do you guys stand on your recall of the BoD and NC? Seems like sooner would be better than later given the July meetings that are scheduled. Would make sense to send folks up there that deliver the word of the majority.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey lear just sent if off. We really need you to get in there and start working for us. You are light years a head of the people running our union.

 

[Lear70]

Lear70, where do you guys stand on your recall of the BoD and NC? Seems like sooner would be better than later given the July meetings that are scheduled. Would make sense to send folks up there that deliver the word of the majority.

Recall effort begins tomorrow.

I'll have the form up on my website in the link below my posts in a few minutes. Have to upload it and a modified web page.

These cannot be emailed, they MUST be faxed. DO NOT send them tonight, there's a time deadline in it so they can go out any time after tomorrow morning. They MUST contain your original signature, date, and printed name and employee number in your own handwriting.

Copies go to the mail or fax address listed on the form so we can keep track of when we reach the required 15% to trigger a vote.

RTL, thanks again for the Kudos. I'll be happy to serve in whatever capacity they see fit to put me in. Won't, in all likelihood, be running for NPA Pres (I'm sure more qualified guys who are just as determined will step up), but would certainly be open to the NC or M&A committees.

 

[mnboyev]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

 

[B73av8r]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

mnboyve,

The COMPANY wants this contract, any contract. THEY do not want to start over, THEY want it over and done with today before the merger. If we walked in with a full new NC and said OK let's start from scratch -THEY would sheet all over themselves.

WE have the upper hand - time is on our side. I for one will wait a little longer for a GOOD contract, like I said, time is on OUR side.

 

[Lear70]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Actually, I think the company would be very UN-pleasantly surprised with who they'd end up with.

There's a LOT of VERY experienced talent in our pilot ranks right now. Besides the obvious people who have worked for the NPA previously (and very productively I might add - some of the same people that brought you the last "improved" 2nd T.A. are still around), you have a whole core of Year 2-4 F/O's who were everything from Status Reps to negotiators to union chairs and vice-chairs before they came here.

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

Yes, we should have had a unified front then, but we didn't.

Now everyone wants blood because THIS NC brought us absolute CRAP. Can you blame them?

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

Yes, he's been an excellent ADMINISTRATOR; that's not what we need now. We need a LEADER who will push, and push hard to get what we need and deserve without pushing TOO much and getting something that the company can't financially handle long-term (which would be a LONG way from where we are now).

Rest assured, whoever goes into office isn't going to have as steep of a learning curve as you might imagine. More than likely the company would end up with not only an EXPERIENCED group of people across the table, but a very dedicated and aggressive group as well.

 

[CitationLover]

good luck guys

 

[j41driver]

Just sent mine in.

Lear - Thank you very much for the work you've done thus far...it is greatly appreciated.

 

[j41driver]

Sorry EV...just don't trust those guys to get the job done. They are too far out of touch with the group. Time to move on.

 

[FlyWolf]

I also want to wish you guys good luck, pulling a TA before a vote is no easy task, someone is paying attention to the pilot group.

 

[Lear70]

I also want to wish you guys good luck, pulling a TA before a vote is no easy task, someone is paying attention to the pilot group.

Yes, they are, although it was hard to ignore. At the "info sessions" and "road shows", it was obvious how many people were angry about it. They had maybe 1 person out of every 10 who was even "neutral", and certainly only a handful of the entire pilot group that were happy about it.

Every conference call was full of militant, angry pilots and the NPA was always on the defensive, using the word "concession" and "industry standard" together a LOT.

I personally believe it a disservice to the pilot group to pull something that was obviously going to bomb so dramatically. A large "NO" vote would have been hailed as a "WIN" by the pilot group, and would have been usable as a large bargaining chip when we return to the table. The company likely realizes that, doesn't want us to have that kind of leverage, and agreed to go back to the NMB.

Unfortunately, it's obvious from people who go to the road show that AP and the NC *still* think this is a good deal. Just can't trust them to go back up and get us something worth having if they believe in something that the VAST majority of the pilot group thinks is such a loser.

It'll be a very short transition period, likely bringing back NPA members who have been heavily involved in the NPA or other union leadership positions previously, getting a new opener together, and going back to the table with the backing of a determined pilot group and an aggressive NC.

I still say this has been the single best thing to unify the pilot group that could have happened, although I no longer believe the NPA engineered it. It got people thinking about what they really wanted, how profitable the company has been and is projected to be, and how little they really are interested in giving up. You can't buy that level of engagement in your membership.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Just out of curiosity, where were all the "recall" guys during the last election? While that election was a big turn-out in relation to the previous ones, only 700 of the eligible pilots voted (about 60%). And only two guys ran for President. With an apathetic showing like that its no wonder the company's opinion of the union is so low. They thought they could steam-roll the pilot group and now know they cannot.

However, I am of the opinion that we need to give AP a chance for redemption. He is doing the right thing in pulling the TA. He stated publicly (in the conference call last night) that if he does not get overwhelming support in a “yes” vote he will have failed the pilots with this new TA. And I take him at his word on that. While I have no faith in SH or the entire NC, I think we should see what AP is willing to do, and how hard he is willing to fight.

When the last election took place I was an advocate that no matter who you voted for, you had to vote. Unfortunately, many chose to let a few decide the fate of us all. And the result is what we have today. Now, you guys are trying to change captains in the middle of voyage. Yes, there are many qualified folks out there who could do the job better, but they were not willing to step up to the plate a few months ago, and now they want to be the “white knight”? No thanks. Had we had more participation, and more candidates, then I could support a recall of AP. However, considering what actually took place, we made our bed and now we have to lie in it (so to speak).

From where I sit the recall guys want to throw the union in chaos; then try to re-negotiate a TA and possible merger. What happens if the new guys don’t do it right? Do we recall them and start over a third time?

We, the pilots, bear some responsibility in all of this. We elected AP and the rest of the BoD. IMHO we should give AP the support he needs, let him do the job he was elected to do, then decide on the recall if he remains out of touch.



Sorry for the rant. Cheers.

 

[GunSlinger]

I just faxed the recall petition to the NPA.

A time for change is definitely at hand!

 

[Lear70]

No, the rant is cool... deliberating ideas is part of what this message board was originally intended for.

I thought like you did until Allen and the BOD pulled this without stating their new goals in going back to mediation. Sorry, but I just know better than to trust someone who has brought me something so woefully inadequate once... part of that "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..." kind of thinking.

I even told him that and have it direct from the source that other senior CA's told him the same thing. "If you're going to let it go to vote, pull the "recommend" and let it die HARD. If you're going to pull it, pull it NOW, tell the membership WHY you're pulling it and EXACTLY what you're going to change and that you will accept nothing less."

If he had done that, I wouldn't support the recall. He hasn't. Therefore I feel I have no choice, not knowing that they'll go to bat to reverse all those concessionary things I posted on the last page.

As to why no one else ran? I don't know,,, although I remember posting that if there was ANY other candidate who was interested to PLEASE let me know, as I didn't like what AP was doing even THEN. I bet you there's more than a 60% turnout at THIS election/recall/election. Hopefully the NMB sessions won't move very quickly and we'll be able to get this done before another "tweaked" T.A. comes out.

AP has until the day of voting to change his tune to what the Membership wants. If he does, I predict he'll stay in office; if he doesn't, I predict he's gone.

 

[FIREMAN]

If AP sends SH back, then he needs to be recalled. It must be clear that there is no support for SH. AP has been asked over and over to replace SH, but refuses to. This is one big reason he has had liitle support. I can not suport a NC I do not belive in. When SH is repalaced then I will put bag tags and stickers on my bags.