AirTran BOD pulls TA

[Citrusflyer]

I listened to the entire conf. call and it seemed somewhat constructive. AP convered most of the major issues, except insurance. He said he recognizes that section 5 needs "major re-work" as does scope (mostly related to the holding company).

He touched on the <100 seat pay and tied it in with scope. From what I can gather he was of the opinion that either we can fly smaller planes or someone else can. He wants Airtran pilots to do it. And the pay was low, he admitted this, but was not willing to lower the 717 pay to raise the pay for "a paper airplane" as he put it. His view is that the company cannot even get out of the leases for the 717's until 2015 at the earliest. He sees any new small jet being used similar to jetblue (an additional fleet). Someone suggested that the new TA include language protecting current CA/FO's at their current payscale if involuntarily displaced into any SJ that comes on the property, and he thought that was a good idea and might be workable.

I didn't get the impression that he was willing to change the hotel section.

The training section seemed to be an issue for re-work as well.

There was a lot of discussion about reserves, and not even the guys calling in seemed to agree on the same issues, so I don't really know where he stands on them. But he did seem to be leaning heavily toward protecting line holders.

He said that after talking with the company that the Midwest merger seems more and more likely and that they (both the union and the company) want this done before that starts.

 

[SOVT]

" Mike Tosi is the finest representative I have ever met"

CAL EWR B737

You met him, I and many others suffered under his unique style of leadership. To sum up his style in a few words -- If it's good for me great, if it screws you I don't care.

Tosi was in your (now our) crew rooms because he thought something was in it for himself. He used to hold court in the PHL crew room and trust me it was enough to make you sick. Bla bla bla I am all knowing and wise. It was rather unique that AAA Management closed an Envoy Room to give him a retirement party--pretty cheap trade for my pension. I also believe he received a (short lived) management position after retirement.

"I wish we could have reps at CAL half as good as him"

I think we have reps that are far better than Tosi and given your position I am surprised that you would make such a statement in public.

 

[gt1900]

Eagle.... Just sent an email... Polite, but strongly worded.. Said basically what I said above...

 

[Eagle757shark]

One issue that AP continues to bring up that everyone needs to pay close attention to. AP says that many line pilots keep getting junior assigned because there are not enough reserves and this new TA would fix that. WRONG!!!!!! The reason why they don't have any reserves and must use down-line draft pilots is because scheduling keeps removing guys on reserves (ERPING) and assigning them a day off. Then they have to down-line draft a guy and pay him a 50% override to fly that trip. This is a function of mismanagement by the scheduling department! Now you want to give scheduling more leeway to mismanage the reserves? Let's look at the facts on why they don't have reserves. Stop scheduling reserves trips more than three days out and ERPING them and we will have reserves to cover trips. Also to have a reserve sit ready reserve after they have flown is totally unacceptable! In section 5 the new TA will allow scheduling to assign a reserve who has duty time to sit ready reserve when they fly in from a trip. This language does not exist now in our current CBA.

Folks this is no longer a small airline where you can make gentleman agreements. The language in the contract needs to be clear! AirTran has close to 1600 pilots and will probable have over 2000 pilots in the next year if the Midwest merger goes through. There needs to be clear language in our collective bargaining agreement. I don't want to hear what the intent is and what has been promised, put the DAMN thing in writing!

 

[PanPan]

I listened to the entire conf. call and it seemed somewhat constructive.

Thats pretty much what I got out of it too.

You know that look your dog gives you when he realizes you found the steaming pile he left you in your new sneakers? It sounded to me like you could 'hear' that look in AP's voice. I think they know where they screwed up. They only considered what we wanted to add to the contract, not we we wanted to keep. We need to make sure they now EXACTLY what needs to be changed to get a yes vote out of us.

So, send them an email, write them a letter, leave them a voice mail.
Don't just tell us idiots, i mean, us schmucks, (cough cough) we dedicated professional pilots (with no lives) on FlightInfo what you think needs to be done.

And if you haven't signed up for informational picketing, DO IT before you udder one more word about what you think needs to be changed.

 

[Citrusflyer]

As for "Erping" I agree that scheduling abuses the system more and more as time passes. The only way to aviod that is to have language in the new contract that makes reserves, assignments, availability, etc. TOTALLY TRANSPARENT. That is a no cost item that should be a show stopper if not agreed upon.

 

[Eagle757shark]

As for "Erping" I agree that scheduling abuses the system more and more as time passes. The only way to aviod that is to have language in the new contract that makes reserves, assignments, availability, etc. TOTALLY TRANSPARENT. That is a no cost item that should be a show stopper if not agreed upon.

With Sabre, they can show daily what everyone is doing. We just have to ask and hold them to it. One thing I learned from the road shows is how much our negotiating committee failed to ask for. Remember, everything is negotiable. Unless you ask, how do you know?

 

[Lear70]

Requirements for the “new” T.A.

​

Gentlemen,

It’s true that I’m new to this airline, but not new to the industry. This is my 3rd airline and although I do not pretend to understand the complete history of airTran’s negotiating background, I believe I DO understand the desires of the pilot group. What follows is a list of MUST-HAVE fixes to the T.A. in order for it to pass, based on multiple message board postings from super-senior to the newest new-hire, as well as my ALPA work for 5 years at my previous carrier:

• Scope: You MUST bind the holding company, and you MUST require that ALL jets AND turboprops over 70 seats MUST be flown by AirTran seniority list pilots, PERIOD. This pilot group is painfully aware of the Q-400 aircraft being outsourced by Frontier. A 12-18 month “trial period” by an outsourced affiliate to assess profitability to the company would likely be acceptable, but there MUST be HARD AND FAST LANGUAGE that requires these jets to be put on property after that time period, and specifically restrict the ability to shuffle those jets from one regional affiliate to another. Again, this MUST be signed by both airTran AND airTran Holdings.

• Merger Protection: You MUST bind the holding company. Since airTran Holdings is purchasing Midwest, any “Merger Protection” language is USELESS without binding the actual entity who is DOING the purchasing.

• Successorship language: Again, MUST be signed by airTran Holdings, as well as airTran, or it’s useless.

• Jumpseat language: The letter must be amended to become a PERMANENT policy change, specifically listing that the policy CANNOT be reversed without the consent of the NPA BOD.

NOTE: All of the above are ZERO COST items to the company, IF they intend to honor the agreement as the NPA stated during the road shows.

• Compensation: this section MIGHT pass with the rates slightly tweaked, if:
  • Remove the 100-seat jet rate entirely or match jetBlue’s blended rates. Period.
  • Increase F/O pay to AT LEAST the median of all Major Airlines. Remember, the F/O’s represent 40% of your voting demographic, and they have NO guarantee that they will upgrade by a certain date, so they are watching this pay rate very closely, and remaining in the bottom 3 carriers after this T.A. is ratified is simply unacceptable to the majority of them.
  • The max CA pay occurs at 12 years, then increases at 2.5% every year thereafter for COLA. Spread the raises throughout the rest of the seniority list evenly, not clustered into certain longevity ranges as is currently in the T.A.
  • Remove the loss of the 737-800 as a “narrow-body” aircraft. There is NO reason for this concession.
  • Remove the loss of “core block” to the company. This is NOT industry-standard, and every pilot here is well-educated now on just how much this loss coupled with door close actually is.
  • Remove the loss of “door close”. This is a pay loss for the flight attendants as well, and it is ill-advised to alienate another employee group for such an unnecessary concession.
  • Remove the loss of the 4 hour hard day. Giving them the 13 hour day in exchange for the 2:1 duty rig is enough of a trade-off.
  • REQUIRE the company to build pairings as shown in the road shows by putting a 90-day notice clause that can be triggered at ANY time to return to a 12 hour max day with a 2.5:1 duty rig. If they begin to build inefficient pairings, we return back to current book. This is our insurance policy, and it’s required.

• Scheduling: this entire section must be mostly returned to current book.
  • Reserves: if we give up the 3.5 hour daily reserve credit, we MUST get back enough to offset this cost to the RESERVE pilots:

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]i.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]12 days off. EVERY month. NO movable days off, or possibly a max of ONE set of MDO’s which, after the line is final, is where the PILOT states that movable day off block is, NOT the company.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]ii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]75 hour guarantee for T.R., 80 for regular reserve pilots. A minimum percentage of T.R. lines that MUST exist AFTER the lines are final.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]iii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]T.R. must have a minimum coverage “trigger” level before a T.R. can be converted to any other reserve type. The PILOT gets to pick which type of reserve he would like to be converted to, if that trigger is reached. (Prevents Crew Scheduling from converting all T.R.’s to regular reserve)
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]iv.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If a trip that must be covered is known more than 12 hours in advance and if assigning that trip would trigger a T.R. pilot, the T.R. pilot, as his discretion, gets the trip. If the trip is known less than 12 hours in advance, the trip gets assigned to a regular reserve and the T.R. is converted to regular reserve.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]v.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Senior “pass” option: when a trip becomes available, Crew Scheduling must call each pilot on reserve IN SENIORITY ORDER. That pilot may “pass” to the next pilot, until the call list has reached the most junior pilot on reserve, then that pilot is assigned to the trip.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]vi.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]COMPLETE transparency in the reserve pilot usage so that pilots may see where they are at in “the bucket” at any given time, including T.R. pilots. This costs absolutely nothing to the company, except requiring them to actually follow the above rules.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]vii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Reserve pilots may only be assigned Ready Reserve Out-Of-Domicile if they AGREE to it. A RROOD pilot may not be sent up for a single out-of-domicile reserve period, it must be for at least 2 or more days. A RROOD pilot must be returned to domicile on his last day of reserve to duty off no later than 2000 (for commutability purposes).
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]viii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Reserves may NOT be held for Ready Reserve after completing a flight assignment unless they AGREE to it, AND that period must pay ABOVE the credit for the flight assignment already completed AND any additional flight assignment given to the pilot during or after their RR.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]ix.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Remove language that says a Reserve pilot may only drop below guarantee by the specific approval of Crew Scheduling. FLICA should be satisfactory determination of coverage levels for reserve drops.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]x.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Remove language that allows the Extension of a reserve pilot into his day off.

Continued...

 

[Lear70]

You must remember, over 50% of the seniority list either is ALREADY on reserve at this moment or WILL be when they upgrade during this contract (all reserve CA’s and EVERY F/O eligible to vote). If you cannot satisfy this group of pilots, you will NOT be able to get a T.A. to pass successfully. This, along with Section 1 are the two biggest “kill” items in this T.A.

• • Scheduling for Lineholders: the biggest single miss of this T.A. is that open time may STILL be assigned in advance, which kills ALL trip swaps and drops for Lineholders.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]i.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Put the language BACK in Section 5 which PROHIBITS the company from pre-assigning reserves open time more than 3 days in advance and make it a HARD requirement, not “if possible”, etc..
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]ii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Put the language BACK in the contract which REQUIRES the company to give pilots the FIRST deadhead back from an outstation.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]iii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]REMOVE the addition of language that allows the company to deny the award of a line that would have an FAR conflict in it.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]iv.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Add language into the commuter policy that specifically states “no pilot will be disciplined for OOPs if they had at least two commuting flights that would have arrived in domicile by the show time of the pairing.”
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]v.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Add language into both the commuter AND sick policy that states that Scheduling MUST put you back on your original trip.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]vi.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Remove language that doesn’t protect against single-day-off coverages if extended into a day off.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]vii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Reinstate full pay for anything returning to domicile after 0200 on your day off.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]viii.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Take out ability to reduce to 8 hours minimum rest for operational delays. Min rest should NEVER be less than 9 hours for safety.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]ix.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Reinstate allowance for a pilot who starts training after the 15th to still be able to bid a line.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]x.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Reinstate financial and day off protection if your line is improperly awarded.

• Sick Leave: must state EXACTLY how pilots who are in their sick bank will not owe it back. Must state that pilots who have sick time accrued may carry it in to this T.A.

• Insurance: Close the loopholes:
  • Raising insurance by 15% for Gold PPO, 10% for everyone else EVERY YEAR is not acceptable. That’s between a 40-60% increase in premiums for the duration of the contract. It should certainly NOT exceed the annual cost of inflation OR the actual SHARED cost of the company’s insurance, which they must PROVE, in writing, that it has gone up.
  • Raising co-pays by ANY amount is unacceptable, and certainly not an open-ended “no-maximum” raise every year. This must be eliminated or capped.
  • Loss of license re-instated to current book.
  • Retirement insurance returned to current book.

• Grievance: reinstate the removal of language that requires the company to meet all deadlines or it is resolved in the grievant’s favor, non-precedent-setting.
  • Reinstate the language back to current book that no individual person on the grievance committee or BOD may summarily deny a grievance.
  • Reinstate the language back to current book that the PILOT, not the NPA President, can make the decision to pursue a grievance.

• Training: Remove new language that states a “failure to recommend” constitutes failure or change the wording that any 3 consecutive “failure to recommends” is basis for termination. This means any upgrading F/O who continually fails upgrade keeps his job.

• Furlough and Recall: Insert language that requires the company to stop outsource jet operations if ANY pilot is on furlough. Reinstate 14-day notice required if other work groups go on strike.

• Hotels: Incorporate self-walk agreement currently in effect as policy.
  • Bind the company to “mutually agree” on ALL hotels.
  • Eliminated “grandfathered hotel” policy – require change to compliant hotel within 90 days of D.O.S.
  • Remove ability for Hotel Committee to waive individual requirements, make it require full BOD approval.
  • Add language that “interior corridor” hotels MUST be “enclosed, and not open to outside elements”.
  • Change “above ground floor” language to “top 3 floors, none of which may be at ground level”.
  • Reinstate 12 hour delineation point for hotels more than 20 minutes away.
  • Remove language that lets the COMPANY pick who the hotel liaison is.
  • Eliminate food loopholes for “Waffle House” to be considered full-service. Require at least one of the two required food establishments to be “on premises”.
  • Define “nearby”, and “retail”

• Company Travel: reinstate the REQUIREMENT for a window or aisle seat, not just “if available”.

• Pass Travel: Add new language that REQUIRES the company to make off-line passes available within 24 hours of request, ONLINE (not in person, in writing). Waiting 7-10 business days for a pass in this day and age is ridiculous.

Again, gentlemen, this is up to you to fix. The pilot group is very angry and, as you know, many people are gearing up recall efforts. The ONLY way to keep the pilot group from splintering off on these tangents is to ACKNOWLEDGE that this T.A. missed the mark substantially, that you plan to fix it, and what EXACTLY you’re going to do to fix it.

The trust is gone; you’re going to have to earn it back. Anything less than the above will, in all likelihood, trigger the same negative “Vote NO” campaign that sprouted from so many different sources.

This company is perfectly able to financially bear these requirements. The pilots know it. And nothing else will suffice.


Regards,

I just sent the above to the entire BOD, plus the NC. Use it if you'd like, but they need to hear from you one way or another!!!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Great job so far to all the AAI pilots that stopped the TA so far. I wish you all the best in improving the situation.

From my experience of witnessing a TA getting rejected the second one usually worse. The fight has got to change from rejecting the TA to removing the BOD and ALL the NC. If the entire NC is not replaced, the same TA will be presented again with minor changes looking for the 51% vote. The changes will raise something to get the margin needed while stripping the already bad language somewhere else to pay for it making the overall contract worse.

The fight must change from the problem TA to the union leadership if anything positive is too result. Otherwise, the company will delay the continued sessions, the union will delay hoping people will calm down and let the mood pass, and the second TA will be presented in six months making the first look like a better deal.

Beware, change the direction of the fight and replace the union that present the first TA. It will delay the process but the process is bound to be delayed as the current union slim cook their plan to get the bad TA passed.

Remove the UNION BOD and ALL the NC.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lear70, where do you guys stand on your recall of the BoD and NC? Seems like sooner would be better than later given the July meetings that are scheduled. Would make sense to send folks up there that deliver the word of the majority.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey lear just sent if off. We really need you to get in there and start working for us. You are light years a head of the people running our union.

 

[Lear70]

Lear70, where do you guys stand on your recall of the BoD and NC? Seems like sooner would be better than later given the July meetings that are scheduled. Would make sense to send folks up there that deliver the word of the majority.

Recall effort begins tomorrow.

I'll have the form up on my website in the link below my posts in a few minutes. Have to upload it and a modified web page.

These cannot be emailed, they MUST be faxed. DO NOT send them tonight, there's a time deadline in it so they can go out any time after tomorrow morning. They MUST contain your original signature, date, and printed name and employee number in your own handwriting.

Copies go to the mail or fax address listed on the form so we can keep track of when we reach the required 15% to trigger a vote.

RTL, thanks again for the Kudos. I'll be happy to serve in whatever capacity they see fit to put me in. Won't, in all likelihood, be running for NPA Pres (I'm sure more qualified guys who are just as determined will step up), but would certainly be open to the NC or M&A committees.

 

[mnboyev]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

 

[B73av8r]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

mnboyve,

The COMPANY wants this contract, any contract. THEY do not want to start over, THEY want it over and done with today before the merger. If we walked in with a full new NC and said OK let's start from scratch -THEY would sheet all over themselves.

WE have the upper hand - time is on our side. I for one will wait a little longer for a GOOD contract, like I said, time is on OUR side.

 

[Lear70]

Naw...let the guys that didn't listen to our group fix it...not good to start over with new folks....my humble opinion....lots of learning and too much ground to lose..? Company would like nothing better !....

Actually, I think the company would be very UN-pleasantly surprised with who they'd end up with.

There's a LOT of VERY experienced talent in our pilot ranks right now. Besides the obvious people who have worked for the NPA previously (and very productively I might add - some of the same people that brought you the last "improved" 2nd T.A. are still around), you have a whole core of Year 2-4 F/O's who were everything from Status Reps to negotiators to union chairs and vice-chairs before they came here.

Everyone was down on the NC not too long ago for being too abrasive..and a certain negotiator 'moved on'...now everyone wants blood and to start over...? WTFO ? Where was the unified front then?....

Yes, we should have had a unified front then, but we didn't.

Now everyone wants blood because THIS NC brought us absolute CRAP. Can you blame them?

AP is a good guy and a regular pilot...no self bravado...He is learning and growing..he has done much to make our union more organized. He has improved communication leaps and bounds....be careful what you stir up....

EV

Yes, he's been an excellent ADMINISTRATOR; that's not what we need now. We need a LEADER who will push, and push hard to get what we need and deserve without pushing TOO much and getting something that the company can't financially handle long-term (which would be a LONG way from where we are now).

Rest assured, whoever goes into office isn't going to have as steep of a learning curve as you might imagine. More than likely the company would end up with not only an EXPERIENCED group of people across the table, but a very dedicated and aggressive group as well.

 

[CitationLover]

good luck guys

 

[j41driver]

Just sent mine in.

Lear - Thank you very much for the work you've done thus far...it is greatly appreciated.

 

[j41driver]

Sorry EV...just don't trust those guys to get the job done. They are too far out of touch with the group. Time to move on.

 

[FlyWolf]

I also want to wish you guys good luck, pulling a TA before a vote is no easy task, someone is paying attention to the pilot group.